The Gearbox Podcast

Jimmy Purdy [00:00:13]:
Welcome to the Gearbox podcast. I'm your host, Jimmy Purdy. On this podcast, we're not just exploring the latest trends and technologies in the automotive industry. We're also getting real about the journey. Yes, the bumpy road of mistakes and lessons learned hard along the way. This is the Gearbox podcast. I mean, it sounds like from what Dave was saying, I mean, you're an influential guy.

John Eppstein [00:00:39]:
Yeah, I've been in the business a long time, and, you know, I'm a Napa auto care, and I got actually, I got three nap. Three shops here in San Diego, and I'm the 2016 Napa Ase Tech of the year. I work with the ASCCA in California, so been state president for a couple years. And, yeah, I do a lot of. A lot of stuff for the industry, so.

Jimmy Purdy [00:01:03]:
Pretty humble about it, too. Yeah.

John Eppstein [00:01:08]:
I'm blessed.

Jimmy Purdy [00:01:08]:
You know, you're just checking off the boxes like it's like going down the grocery aisle.

John Eppstein [00:01:13]:
Well, you know, it's. You know, I've got to do what I love all my life. And, you know, I'm not the richest guy in town, but, you know, I pay my bills and I got a lot of employees and, you know, they.

Jimmy Purdy [00:01:25]:
All have a good life and a.

John Eppstein [00:01:26]:
Lot of stuff in the community, so I can't complain one bit.

Jimmy Purdy [00:01:29]:
That's awesome. Well, I'm happy I had some time to take some time with me, especially having three shops in San Diego. I can only imagine how much time that takes out of your day.

John Eppstein [00:01:40]:
Yeah, well, I've got great people, so that. That's a big help.

Jimmy Purdy [00:01:43]:
It seems to be. That seems to be the trend, right? Like, you kind of. For me to think about going from one shop to multiple shops, I'm like, man, I don't know if I have the time for that.

John Eppstein [00:01:51]:
Right?

Jimmy Purdy [00:01:52]:
Like, that's crazy. That just seems like so much time. But you got to get the right people, you know?

John Eppstein [00:01:58]:
Absolutely. Hundred percent.

Jimmy Purdy [00:01:59]:
And how do you find them in California? Cuz I'm up in the central coast, so, you know, I'm about 4 hours north of you.

John Eppstein [00:02:07]:
Yeah, yeah, we, you know, we, we, you know, we find the duds and we move on from them and then, you know, we find people with potential and, you know, we work with them and, you know, sometimes they pan out, sometimes about the time they're panning out, they're moving on, and, you know, it's just a matter of, you know, like my general manager. It was kind of funny. We see, I guess you've known me, what, 1213 years now? So I was looking for an advisor. When I had one shop, and I had one advisor, and I was courting this guy, so to speak. And, you know, we were talking, and he had been in the industry, out of the industry. He wanted to get back in. And I told him, I said, you know, you're gonna be my. You're gonna be my guy, my only service advisor, blah, blah, blah.

John Eppstein [00:02:55]:
Sorry. Let me think about it. So Friday, he calls me up, says, hey, I've taken this job at this other place. I'm like, okay, well, you know, how come? He says, well, I'm not gonna be the only service advisor and be a different service advisor. You know, there's gonna be other service advisors. I'm like, okay, you know, I can't argue with your logic there. If something changes, just let me know. So he told me where he's working, and I know the owner and is like, well, you know, the guy's kind of hard to work for, but, yeah, you know, whatever.

John Eppstein [00:03:21]:
So Monday morning, about 11:00 I get a call from that owner, and he says, hey, I hear we were both trying to hire the same guy. Do you want me to send you the guy that I'm let. That I'm letting go? You know? And of course I'm like, whoa, wait a minute. Why are you letting them go?

Jimmy Purdy [00:03:37]:
What is. What are you setting me up for?

John Eppstein [00:03:39]:
And he's all, you know, we just have a difference in opinions. You know, we just kind of clash. And I'm like, well, I can see that because I know the guy. He's a little hard to work for. I said, sure, why not? So he comes over, we talk. I hire him. 13 years later, he's my general manager. The guy that I was trying to hire only lasted at that place for two months, and then he got out of the industry again, so.

Jimmy Purdy [00:04:03]:
Oh, man.

John Eppstein [00:04:03]:
Yeah, you know, you talk about, you know, how did you get the guy or a guy. And, you know, that was just a freak thing. I just. I saw that other owner the other day, and he was like, you know, he's reminded me of, you know, the favor he did me.

Jimmy Purdy [00:04:17]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think we get. Maybe we get into trouble of, like, trying to put a square peg in a round hole or trying to make someone work when you're just better off letting them go. I mean, I don't know. Like you said, maybe it's like, that's just part of the deal. And it feels like every time something like that happens, you think about all the different ways. Like, I was just earlier talking about a hiring process.

Jimmy Purdy [00:04:35]:
So we do a lot of interviews in the shop. Like, we want to make sure we do a shop tour, you know? And I've changed the tactics. Like, when we get an application, like, I want to call right away. Like, I don't want to do this email back and forth and set up an interview. Like, I'm just going to call, what's up, man? What are you looking for? Right? And then, so this last time around, we're like, let's really change it up. So we took them out for drinks. Like, there's a local bar here. It's kind of an outdoorsy vibe fire pit.

Jimmy Purdy [00:05:00]:
Like, let's just go sit down and have a drink, get to know each other. And we. I mean, everything was working out really good. I'm like, oh, that was probably the most, like, easiest interview because it's so awkward to do an interview, you know? I hate interviews. Yeah, it was like, it was just. It was a good vibe, you know, like, cool. And then I had the rest of the crew there. We're all hanging out.

Jimmy Purdy [00:05:17]:
We got to see how everyone interacted. I'm like, sweet. Yeah, right? So we sent an offer letter. Everything looks good. And then it's been about four days. We haven't heard a word from him. I'm like, what did we do wrong?

John Eppstein [00:05:30]:
Oh, not a thing. Not a thing.

Jimmy Purdy [00:05:32]:
Not a thing. Right?

John Eppstein [00:05:33]:
It's amazing how. How often, you know, that happens. You know, we give somebody offer, oh, that sounds great. I'll start. You know, then their. Their day rolls around. Oh, yeah. A tree fell in my mom's house, so I got to go help her.

John Eppstein [00:05:46]:
Okay. Mom's pretty important, so, you know, when you come in. Well, I don't know. Okay, well, all right. Or, yes. They just don't. They just don't answer, respond. I mean, it's just.

John Eppstein [00:05:56]:
It's crazy.

Jimmy Purdy [00:05:57]:
What do you do? Do you try to, like, chase that down and try to follow up, or if that happens, you're just like, you know what this is? I'm already seeing the red flags, and that's it. And you're just moving on.

John Eppstein [00:06:07]:
It really just depends. Like, you know, we've had a couple people that, you know, ran into some personal hiccups before they started, and if everything went well to that point, they were upfront about it. It wasn't like, hey, I know I'm supposed to have been there an hour ago, but I can't be there. That's a big red flag. But it's like, they're supposed to start Monday. They call us on Friday. Hey, this is what's going on. And we've had some pretty good luck with the few that we've done that for, but we're real selective.

John Eppstein [00:06:43]:
We hired a kid last, oh, I think three, four weeks ago, late his very first day. You know, he's just a helper kid, late, very first day. And then he worked that day, and it's gonna shock you, but we never saw him again, you know, and it's just like, you know, where'd you go? So, yeah, it really just depends on the case by case. A lot of times, we just move on. Yeah, you're struggling. You can't even make it your first day. Yeah, we're just. Yeah, we're moving on.

John Eppstein [00:07:15]:
So.

Jimmy Purdy [00:07:15]:
Can't help but just kind of laugh at the situation, though, huh? Like, what do you want me to do? I mean, but, like, all the time and resource you spend into the whole process, it's just, what if? Just a pain in the ass, you know, the whole thing.

John Eppstein [00:07:30]:
Yeah, well, you know, we've gotten smarter over the years because, you know, we used to interview somebody. You know, we, you know, like, I remember one time I interviewed an office lady, and this was when we were kind of small, you know, the office lady's job was to drive customers home, pick up parts, paperwork, whatever. You know, we're talking about this stuff. You know, an hour and a half goes by. Everything's looking great. Hey, I need a copy of your driver's license. I got to make sure you're insurable, right? Shouldn't have a driver's license, even though we discussed her driving customers home. Yada, yada, yada.

John Eppstein [00:08:02]:
So that's now one of the first questions that we ask. Hey, you got a valid driver's license? It's saved us a lot of time from having great interviews and then getting somebody that just doesn't have a driver's license or has one, but they got three duis, so it's suspended. And it's funny how that stuff doesn't come out right away.

Jimmy Purdy [00:08:25]:
Yeah, you would think the common sense would lead them to that kind of discretionary for themselves. They're like, well, you're going to be driving cars. Don't you think it's important to have a license? And it's amazing. Some of those questions you got to ask up front, it's like, you have any drug or alcohol problems that we should be aware of? Like, can you. I gotta ask. I gotta ask, you know, what's your recreational stuff that you like, to do, even though they're probably not gonna tell you, you gotta at least ask.

John Eppstein [00:08:49]:
Yeah, I mean. I mean, you know, you never know. We had a. We had a. It's funny, we had this kid years ago that he came in and he had some physical limitations. He limped everywhere. Like, the right side of his body just didn't. It didn't grow, like, the left side.

John Eppstein [00:09:05]:
So he was obviously, you know, struggling with stuff. And one of our questions, you know, do you have any physical limitations that are going to keep you from doing anything? No, I'm good. You know, the first day you can't pick up a trash can, it's like, just be honest with us, you know? Yeah, there's a few things that I can't do, and, you know, we kind of knew it, but, you know, we're not going to not hire somebody for that, but, you know, it's like, just be honest about it.

Jimmy Purdy [00:09:33]:
Yeah. Pick and choose your battles, you know? And if it's something you think you can do, then cool, let's get it done. But, I mean, I have the problem, too, with. I mean, it goes with training, too, when you're looking for somebody, you know, not. Not knowing enough. I mean, and that's something that's really hard because it's not a physical thing that you can see, right? Like, you don't know. You're looking at someone in the eyes and you're like, what do you know? You know? Like, yeah, right?

John Eppstein [00:09:58]:
Yeah. I'm gonna share with you for a minute so I can figure out what, you know. Yeah. Like, we're gonna.

Jimmy Purdy [00:10:02]:
Like, we're gonna figure it out, but that's gonna be really hard unless you can, like, tell me some baseline stuff. And it's not like I'm trying to disqualify you because I feel like a lot of people think you're trying to disqualify them, you know, or, like, belittle them. It's like, no, I just. I just need to know what I can, like, ship you so that you can make us money, so then I can pay you and we can, like, start evolving something here, right? Like, I don't need you to prove to me that you're more than what you are, even though I think most. Most technicians are. I mean, we're all pretty arrogant. We have big egos. We like to think we can.

Jimmy Purdy [00:10:32]:
So you kind of need a little bit of that. But you know what I'm saying? Like, that's the hardest part, is, like, the mental part, like, how much stress can you take, you know, like, where's your breaking point? You know, like. And then how much knowledge is really inside of that head of yours, you know, it's like, that's the hardest thing. And I hate, like, the a, b, and c level tech kind of.

John Eppstein [00:10:50]:
Yeah, tears.

Jimmy Purdy [00:10:51]:
Like, I just, like, I don't know. Yeah, I built transmissions for a long time. I still kind of do. And it reminds me of, like, the stage one, stage two, and stage three shift kits, you know, it's like. It's just a bunch of hot air. Like what? Like, where do you draw the line? When do you become a to b to circum. I don't know.

John Eppstein [00:11:08]:
Yeah, no, that's super hard to, you know, to quantify that, you know, with people. Yeah, it's probably the biggest. You know, the biggest thing for us, you know, is we're looking for people that want to work together and, you know, that are open to not really criticism, but just open to help, you know, I'm a, you know, I'm a double master tech, or I was. I let my. Certified my certifications labs because I don't fix cars anymore, but I was a double, you know, a truck and a car master. I worked in cars for years, and I, you know, have a tech come in, and I see him out there struggling. You know, it's like, you know, I remember one guy, he was trying to get a wheel bearing out of a rear end or an axle bearing, and I'm watching him, and I. He's struggling.

John Eppstein [00:11:59]:
I go, hey, you know, he wants to. No, no, I got this. I got this. Okay, all right, fine. You know, half hour later, he's still struggling. Come back over. Hey, you know, no, I got. I got this.

John Eppstein [00:12:09]:
All right, all right. Another half hour goes by. I just walked over, and I just moved him out of the way. I'm like, look, get out of my way. I'm not trying to be mean to you. I want to help you. Selfishly. The faster you get this job done, the more money we all make.

John Eppstein [00:12:23]:
And I did, whatever, 30 seconds is out. And it's like, if you got. If you need help, just take it, you know? Because, you know, you don't know everything. I don't know everything. You know, my guys come up to me and say, hey, what about this? I'm like, I got no clue. Go ask one of the other guys. I don't know, but if it's something, you know, just share the knowledge. And we're pretty blessed that most of our guys are built that way.

John Eppstein [00:12:46]:
They're willing to help, they're willing to take help, but we get those guys in that just don't want any part of that. And it's. And it's frustrating because, you know, you can help them, but they just don't want it. And so it's. Those are the types of people that, you know, that we look for as people that are willing to accept the help. You know, we have that conversation. Can you leave your ego at home? If the answer is yes, still a lot of them can't. But, you know, at least if they say yes, there's a shot, you know, then we can all work together to create the best product possible, because at the end of the day, the collective heads get together.

John Eppstein [00:13:27]:
They're going to do more than one person can do on a regular basis.

Jimmy Purdy [00:13:31]:
Very well said. Yeah, I mean, that's what we're trying to do, is build a team. But, I mean, it sounds like you, once upon a time, were on the floor and your technician turned shop owner. So it's easy to. Not easy, but I can reflect on those times of, like, just, I just, you know, leave me alone. Let me do my thing. I'll figure it out. I don't need help, you know, and try to find every way possible to get a job done without asking anybody.

Jimmy Purdy [00:13:59]:
Because if I asked for help, that means that I didn't do the job. Even if it was for, like, a minute.

John Eppstein [00:14:04]:
Right?

Jimmy Purdy [00:14:05]:
Like, help for, like, 30 seconds is like. And then it was just like, nope. Yeah, I can't count that one because I didn't do it all by myself. It was such a weird. Yeah, it's a weird thought to have.

John Eppstein [00:14:17]:
Yeah, well, you know, it was for the longest time, you know, when I first started, I worked in the shop. I was 16, I worked in a shop that there were a couple of really good technicians, and. And, you know, they would help me from time to time. And then pretty much from, like, when I was 19 on through, after I started my shop, I was always the guy in the shop. You know, nobody else knew more than me, and it wasn't, you know, that wasn't, like, what I was seeking for. This is just the way it was. You know, I'd never worked in a shop with a bunch of great technicians or anything, and I would have loved to have that amazing tech over there on that side of the shop that I could wander over and go, hey, what do you think about this? This is kicking my butt. You know, I would have been good with that, because as a shop owner, that's what I, you know, that's what I did.

John Eppstein [00:15:05]:
That's how I went from being a great technician to a great shop owner, is I went out and I asked people, you know, hey, I got no clue what's going on here. Can you help me out? You know, unfortunately, there was people out there that were willing to, you know, talk with me and, you know, work with me and all that.

Jimmy Purdy [00:15:21]:
So there's a lot of help out there if you're willing to ask. But I think the problem is no one's willing to ask, you know? And, I mean, it's funny you said that. Reminds me of, like, asking for help, and they got to a certain point where, like, the questions I started having, they weren't easily answered, you know, like, I'd have, for a long time, I'd run into a problem and I'd be like, oh, I don't know what happened here. And someone, you know, come over, oh, it goes like this. Okay, cool. And it was like, all that stress is gone. Like, oh. And I was.

Jimmy Purdy [00:15:51]:
It was like, kind of a crutch for a long time. And I got to a point where it was like, oh, man, I don't know what the answer to that is. Like, you're going to have to figure that out. Like, I got to do what? And it's like, then it's just, like, keeps getting more and more and more, right? Like, and now, like, as the owner of the shop, it's like, now I'm reaching out and asking a completely different question. Right? Like, has nothing to do with fixing cars and. Yeah. Slowly learning that, like, it's a whole different. A whole different animal.

Jimmy Purdy [00:16:16]:
You know, it's business, and then it's automotive repair business, but I still have, you know, like, like, you do still have guys walking up to you asking, hey, so how does this go? Or what do you think about this? Or what do you think the problem is with this? And you're like, yeah, oh, and you gotta, like, switch back and forth in your head, like, and try to keep a little bit of that technician mindset, you know? It's like, man, this is no joke.

John Eppstein [00:16:37]:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no, that's for sure. Yeah, I've got. I've got one guy, he's worked for me for 20 to 23 years now, and he came to me, came from Valvoline, instant oil change. And, you know, he's a really good tech, but since he started working for me, he comes to me when he has technical problems, you know, and he doesn't, you know, now he's a, you know, he's a master tech himself, so he doesn't have as many problems, but he still does. And he'll still, you know, hey, what do you think about this? You know, and he'll run some by me, and sometimes he gets the old, I got no clue. You kind of hit everything that I did. And other times, like, well, did you try this? Did you try that? How about this? And, you know, and here's point out, like, dude, you're.

Jimmy Purdy [00:17:22]:
You're the, you're the lead tech now, man. I don't know at this point.

John Eppstein [00:17:27]:
I know, and I tell them that. It's like, you know, jason, you know, these are the kinds of questions that I usually tell people to go ask you.

Jimmy Purdy [00:17:38]:
That's the burden of. The weight of the burden of being on the top like that. You don't realize that. You just, you try so hard to, like, learn as much as you can, and you see those guys in the shop when you first start out, and you're like, man, I want to know everything that guy knows. You don't realize the gravity of that situation.

John Eppstein [00:17:54]:
Yeah, right. Yeah, there's a lot that comes with that. That's for sure.

Jimmy Purdy [00:17:58]:
Yeah. Oh, man. And it's never ending, you know, especially in this day and age.

John Eppstein [00:18:03]:
Yeah, no, absolutely. There's. There's so much, you know, I think, you know, today's technician has to understand the basics. You got to kind of got to have that mechanical knowledge, you know, the electrical, you know, electronic knowledge helps, and then just know where to go to find the information you need to fix the cars, because there's just so much crazy off the wall stuff that, you know, I remember the first time I used identifix, and I still remember. I still remember it. It was a PT cruiser, and a friend of mine was, she called, she said, oh, hey, my dash went completely dead. And I'm driving to northern California today. It's on a Sunday.

John Eppstein [00:18:41]:
I'm like, oh, bring it by. Let me look at it. And, you know, and I'm poking around. I didn't find anything. Let me try this identifix thing that I've never used, you know, I know we have it. And I get in there, and I type it in, and it says, disconnect the battery, hold the terminals together for 30 seconds. It'll restart the. Whatever module, and the dash will work.

John Eppstein [00:19:01]:
And I'm like, yeah, whatever. So I tried it. Of course it worked. And I'm like, yes, I'm a technician again.

Jimmy Purdy [00:19:09]:
I still got it.

John Eppstein [00:19:10]:
Yep, exactly. But, you know, it's really, you know, you gotta be able to dig in and, you know, find that information on, you know, a lot of stuff, especially diagnostics and stuff, you know.

Jimmy Purdy [00:19:23]:
Yeah, yeah. Service information. Gotta learn how to read it, gotta know it. But, I mean, I think, like you said, when we kind of start on this is like, when you're looking for technicians, you're looking for service advisors, you're looking for people in your shop. I think just culture is the most important thing. You just want to make sure that they're gonna come in, they're gonna hang out, everyone's gonna have a good time. They're gonna enjoy seeing each other every day, you know, because we're. I mean, no one's worked on a 2025, you know, so when that vehicle comes in rolling through the shop, no one's gonna know what to do.

Jimmy Purdy [00:19:53]:
Right. We got a pretty good idea. Like, you know, you don't know how to use your tools and all that, but obviously, like, no one's gonna have that answer. So, yeah, I've slowly been learning that aspect, too, is like, I think it's just more important. Rather than having some rockstar come in with a bad attitude, I'd rather have someone younger, a little greener. That's like, happy smile, and, like, what's next? You know, get everybody excited, you know? Yeah, yeah, get. Get that. Get that vibe, you know, like, that's the new generation, right? They're all about the vibe.

John Eppstein [00:20:21]:
Yeah, yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:20:22]:
And, you know, and they're not wrong. They're not wrong. I enjoy it.

John Eppstein [00:20:24]:
No, no. You know, and we're focusing on our. On our culture a lot more. It's like, you know, ten years ago, it was, shut up, get back to work. Yeah. I thanked you last week when you got your paycheck, you know, and that was kind of. That was kind of it, you know, there wasn't any of that. Hey, by the way, great job.

John Eppstein [00:20:40]:
Hey, thanks for the help, you know. Hey, you know, just thanks for being here, you know, and there's a lot of other stuff that, you know, goes along with it. How about just listening to your people? Yeah. I always tell them, it's like, I'll listen to whatever you say. I may not do whatever you suggest, but I will at least listen to you, and then I'll tell you why I'm not gonna do it if I'm not. And we've had some great ideas come from, you know, people when they come to work here, and they're like, oh, we should try this and try that. And just listening, you know, helps a lot. And then just that simple, you know, I walk through the shop every day, you know, hey, guys, how's it going? You know, one by one, I go to each guy, you know, hey, how's it going? How's your weekend? Anything new? You know, I don't stop and talk for five minutes with everybody, you know, every once in a while, I'll stop and talk for a few minutes with somebody, you know, it's just this, just, you know, noticing that they're there, knowing who they are.

John Eppstein [00:21:32]:
It goes such a huge. You know, it's just a. It goes so far with people, you know.

Jimmy Purdy [00:21:37]:
Oh, yeah, yeah, you hit home with that. Because that was kind of how I started my. I mean, about five years ago, six years ago, when I took over the shop and started running it, that was my business practice was like, hey, so you're here, and then I pay you, and then our relationships done until next week, like, you know what I mean? Like, you show up, and for you showing up and doing the work that you tell me you can do, I then give you a paycheck, and then we're done. Like, that's our, you know, we're done. Cause that's how I was in it, you know, like, that's the shop I worked for. That's how I was. And so it's. Yeah, it's really tough when you were kind of brought up in that atmosphere, and then you're trying to.

Jimmy Purdy [00:22:16]:
And then you start realizing that was wrong or something, but it's just not working. Like, what? Why? What's not working here? Oh, I guess it's me and what I, like based my entire existence on.

John Eppstein [00:22:29]:
Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. I go back to, you know, I mostly worked in gas stations, you know, and the last guy that I worked for, I say this all the time, if he would have treated me halfway decent, I would probably still be working for him. But he just didn't, you know, and. And I didn't need all that, you know, hey, great job. Rah, rah. Whatever. But, you know, someone would come in, you know, and I'd be telling about, oh, you know, one of my customers came in, and he'd be like, you know, they're not your ff customers or my customers.

John Eppstein [00:23:06]:
Well, they kind of asked for me, but whatever. Technically, you're right. But I look at them as my customers because I go out of my way to do whatever I can to take care of them. So it wasn't like, a possessive statement that you know, these are my customers. You can't have them. But that's what he took it as. And so he would argue with me all the time about stuff like that. And it just got to the point where it's like, I need out of here.

John Eppstein [00:23:28]:
You know, I need to open my shop. I need to take care of my customers. I need to take care of my employees. I still didn't do it as well as I could have, but, you know, I did it a whole lot better than my last boss did, that's for sure.

Jimmy Purdy [00:23:41]:
Yeah, that's. I think that's that ego thing, right? Like, go and take the shop owner, and you got this ego, and you got these people. It's like, no, they're here for me. That's why they're here. And it's like, no, they're here for your team. Right? Like, that's what they. Yeah, like, and that's how I see it, too. Like, I don't.

Jimmy Purdy [00:23:54]:
I don't want to be the face. Like, I don't want people coming and asking for. That's why I didn't name the shop after my. My name is, like, I didn't want that. But I think a lot more than I realized do. I think a lot of guys and girls, when they open their shop, they want to be that person where it's like, they're coming in because they like me and I'm the best person around. Yeah, I don't know.

John Eppstein [00:24:16]:
Yeah, right.

Jimmy Purdy [00:24:17]:
That's the right thing to do.

John Eppstein [00:24:18]:
Yeah. Back when I started, I was a one man shop. And so guess what? Everybody asked for me. I was the face of the shop. And when I started growing and transitioning into, you know, a bigger shop that, you know, at first it was kind of like, God, I can't let anybody else take care of my customers. And then I'm like, well, if I'm gonna grow, I have to let people take care of my customers. I gotta let them give it a try. Some are gonna fail, some are, you know, majority are gonna work.

John Eppstein [00:24:47]:
It's gonna work out. If it fails, then I'll go back in and help out. You know, I still have customers that are 2025 year customers that still come in that, you know, I see them once every two, three years just in passing. And, you know, it's a. It's a. It's tough letting go of your people, but you have to. You have to do it. It's the only way that you can grow, you know?

Jimmy Purdy [00:25:11]:
What was another, like, pain point that you can remember as you're moving from, like, a single shop, and I mean, even growing from, like, just you running it to having a crew, then moving from that to, like, multiple shops, because that's like a big transition there. That's like resetting the whole game again. You know, I feel like you get one shop and everything's buzzing, and then you're like, oh, I'll get another shop. And it's like, yeah, the next, like, you're almost right.

John Eppstein [00:25:35]:
Yeah, no, absolutely. You know, it's funny because when, you know, when I started growing and I was adding people, I added, you know, service advisor, you know, extra technicians, and I suddenly figured out that I have no idea how to market or advertise because when I was smaller, I didn't need to. I just, I always had way too many cars. And so I joined a 20 group. You know, thank God for my 20 group. They set me, you know, set me on a path that worked out really well. I learned how to market, I learned how to advertise. I learned how to do a lot of other things.

John Eppstein [00:26:09]:
I'm still learning how to do some of it. But then, you know, as we grew, if I didn't have a good, you know, general manager in place, I wouldn't have made that leap, you know? And then once we made the leap, we had to figure out, you know, we're in different areas of San Diego, so marketing is different, the customers are different, the employees are different. I mean, you know, everything is different. And so, you know, we had to figure out, you know, one, each shop has to have its kind of own personality, even though they're. But they're all, they're all branded. John's automotive care. You know, we have a really good name and, you know, in our town, so, so they all look the same. They, but they each have their own personalities, you know, and if I tried to cram them all into one personality, we wouldn't be successful in any way, shape or form.

John Eppstein [00:27:02]:
You know, we just kind of have gone into the different communities and learned what we need to do. So that, that was a challenge for sure. You know, the first, the first shop, well, the second shop was five, six, I think, six years ago. And that was, that was 20 years of me saying, there's not a chance in hell I'm ever going to have more than one shop. And then, I don't know, one day I woke up and it was like, yeah, let's try something different here. And, you know, I actually, I don't have enough.

Jimmy Purdy [00:27:32]:
I don't have enough problems on my plate. I'd like to do one more of this.

John Eppstein [00:27:35]:
Right? Yeah. So I had a friend that just wanted out, and, you know, the price was right. And I'm like, if I'm ever going to figure out if this is going to work for me, this is the ideal opportunity. You know, I don't want to go spend $500,000 to find out that this sucks. And, you know, it's not going to work for me, so. And it took a little while to get the ball rolling. And then last year, beginning, actually, I guess it was year before the end of the year before we got an opportunity to add our third shop. But, you know, and we're still learning that, you know, now that we're at this size, you know, we've got a kind of a corporate team, so to speak.

John Eppstein [00:28:09]:
And I think we grew our corporate team a little bigger, a little faster than we should have. So, you know, we just. It's just. It's just learning the nuances. You know, like I said, it's one shop. You learn the nuances of the one shop, and then you just, you go, and now we're learning the nuances of all the shops. Not to mention, you know, payroll that used to take ten minutes because there was two employees, now takes three people half a day to do, you know, because we have, we got this, you know, this has to be done. This has to be done, and then this has to be done.

John Eppstein [00:28:43]:
This has to be done. And then, you know, it's kind of learning the timeframes on stuff, you know, I can't just wait till 03:00 now to get my payroll done by four, you know, because it takes, you know, it takes half the day to do it. So those are, those are some of the, you know, the bigger challenges, I think, is just learning the nuances of the growth, you know, because you can't just do everything the way you used to, right?

Jimmy Purdy [00:29:10]:
I mean, like, yeah, literally everything has to change.

John Eppstein [00:29:13]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:29:14]:
And stuff that you don't even think about. Like, that's like a point. Like payroll. Like, oh, man. Yeah, you're right. You got, what, 25, 30 people and only that. But I mean, as an S corp or an LLC, like, that changes all the rules, too, because now you have more than 15 employees. You have, like, a whole different set of rules.

Jimmy Purdy [00:29:30]:
So everything that you've done for the last 5678, 910 years has to change. It's all new now because it's all right. Different ballgame.

John Eppstein [00:29:39]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:29:40]:
Oh, man. It's like, what a challenge. To just dive in head first. But I really liked your comment about, like, the learning the different kind of markets that are around because it kind of goes against everything. Like, I read a lot of books about, you know, expanding and franchising, and. And so they want you to get a cookie cutter motto and then just duplicate, duplicate, duplicate. But, I mean, you're right. You have to really be kind of custom tailored to, like, the community you're in.

Jimmy Purdy [00:30:07]:
The, like, the vehicles that are coming in, because you can market till you're blue in the face for a certain vehicle. But, you know, if you have something else coming in head over tails and you're not even paying for the vehicle to come in, then that's the. That's. That's the work you do. You know, like, if you want Subarus all the time or Hondas all the time, but you're out in a ranch area, and you got nothing but ranch trucks coming in. You're working on ranch trucks? Like what?

John Eppstein [00:30:30]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:30:31]:
That's what you're gonna do.

John Eppstein [00:30:33]:
Yeah, absolutely. You know, like I said, all my shops look the same. You know, they're painted the same, you know, kind of signage, all that. You know, you walk in and, you know, I mean, you drive by, you go, oh, look, I didn't know. John's is out here now, you know? And so they're very recognizable. But I learned years ago, I've been a part of my Napa business development group for years. And when I first joined, we had, I think, 15 different business. We had 15 different auto care centers were in the group.

John Eppstein [00:31:06]:
And we always did group marketing for the first, like, five years. And so there's shops all over San Diego, you know, different areas. And not one single marketing thing that we tried worked for every shop. And so we tried. We tried the penny saver, right? And so the shops that were in east county did great with it. The shops in central San Diego did okay. The shops near the beach did terrible, you know, and it's not quite that way, but you kind of. You kind of get the picture.

John Eppstein [00:31:42]:
And so then we're like, okay, we're gonna forget that. We're gonna do something else. So we did something else. And now the east county one, that did well with the first one, the second one didn't get anything out of it, so it was always just different. There was never one area that the marketing worked really well. So that was kind of like my first introduction to the fact that if I'm going to go into a different area, I've got to figure out some different ways to market. We still market internally the same way for the most part, but to get, you know, to market externally to people that haven't been in, you know, that definitely looks, looks different, you know, from shop to shop.

Jimmy Purdy [00:32:23]:
Well, then tracking it, too, and I think that's missed a lot of the time, too because there's so many marketing companies out there right now that are like the all in one where you're just like, oh, I'll spend 1500 or $2,000 a month and set it and forget it. You know, like, these shops will get it and like, oh, that's my marketer. You know, they do my marketing. What do they do? Well, I don't know. They do all the market. I just, it's like fifteen hundred dollars a month and they, then they bring me cars in and it's like, you're not tracking it. You're not like, yeah. Do you know how many is coming? And that's a learning curve for me.

Jimmy Purdy [00:32:53]:
I mean, that hits home for me, too because I've just in the last three months really like dove into that and like broke that up and like, no, no, I want you to do this. I want you to. And I got like three or four different companies now that I'm using that I can like hold accountable for what they're telling me they can do for me because fifteen hundred dollars a month is, I mean, it adds up.

John Eppstein [00:33:13]:
Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

Jimmy Purdy [00:33:14]:
I mean, it's a small amount of the budget when you're trying to get like four or 6%, you know, and you're trying to keep that certain amount. But I mean, you get, if you can cut that in half, keep them accountable and then it's like, that's 300 more dollars or 400 more dollars you can put towards millers or flyers or whatever.

John Eppstein [00:33:31]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:33:32]:
The next thing you want to try.

John Eppstein [00:33:33]:
Out is, yeah, no, absolutely. You know, tracking. Yeah, that's, that's huge. And if you, if you've got the, like, when we were smaller, we actually tracked the first three visits for everybody and we'd see, okay, you know, this, this advertising thing, we only get first visits. We never get a second and third, you know.

Jimmy Purdy [00:33:56]:
Oh, that's interesting. That's a good way to look at it, too. Yeah. Yes.

John Eppstein [00:33:59]:
So if you just track the first visit, it was, it was a success, but there was no return. Or the return was they came in for a smog test and that's it. You know, they didn't spend, you know.

Jimmy Purdy [00:34:12]:
Other dollars that can kind of skew your numbers up when you're looking at marketing a little bit. Right? Like, yeah, because you, I mean, that's like the coupon clippers.

John Eppstein [00:34:19]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:34:20]:
Oh, we get a really good return on it. It's like, we got to do that. It's like Google Ads, right? Like, so if you do Google Ads, you're con. You have to Google Ads for the rest of your life until you get your organic search, you know, rolling on your website. So it's like the same thing with the coupons. I feel like where if you just got coupon clippers coming in all the time, well, you're always gonna have to pay for them to come in. That's a great point to save. You can get two or three back out of one.

Jimmy Purdy [00:34:43]:
I mean, that's a hell of a return right there.

John Eppstein [00:34:45]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And then, and then what you would find is that you would, you know, you would see that. Okay. Like, like Groupon, I. There was a guy in my 20 group, he was our biggest shop for a long time. They sold 1200 groupons, right. For the next six months, his aro, like, went from six hundred dollars to two hundred dollars. It just messed him up.

John Eppstein [00:35:12]:
For six months, he had 1200 new customers, but 1150 of them never came back. And they all didn't come in, but a good portion of them did. And so it just messed them up. You know, you gotta look at the, you know, the visits. And, you know, another thing that we did when we were, we used to track all that. We got it. We went from, I think it was one advisor to two advisors, and the second, the new advisor, he came from the area. He was really good with customers.

John Eppstein [00:35:50]:
And so we're like, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna try to push more of the new customers towards him. And all of a sudden we noticed our average ro on new customers went from eight hundred dollars to one hundred dollars in the first month. And so we're like, hey, you know, what's, you know, what's going on? Why is it. Oh, I never sell anything to a new customer. And it's like, let me show you something. And I showed him, you know, before he started, here's our average ro for a new customer, it's $800. He's like, whoa. And after that, he, you know, he sold.

John Eppstein [00:36:26]:
He sold, like, everybody the same way, you know, because at the end of the day, for us, we don't sell stuff. We just, we look at your car, we report to you what you find. What we find. This looks great. This looks okay. This needs to be done now, and we supply information and we help people make a decision that's best for them, you know, at the end of the day.

Jimmy Purdy [00:36:48]:
Right. Yeah. Client advocacy. I mean, that's. And I mean, there's a lot. And I don't know if you're on the. On the Facebook forums or not, but there's. There's a lot of talk on the social media about talking about dvis and how that's just, like, ripping people.

Jimmy Purdy [00:37:00]:
And it just. It really goes down to just who's selling what to who. Right. I mean, anything could be made to be, looked like a bad idea if all your goal is just to sell, you know? So it's important to. To think about it that way is like, what's. What is your vision? What's your goal? And I think that's it. Client advocacy. This is what we're recommending.

Jimmy Purdy [00:37:22]:
This is what we're advising. You can do it or you don't have to do it. And that's why I've always charged for the inspections. When they come in, they get charged $99. Hey, we're good here. Like, you've paid us. We did our thing. You can do this or not.

Jimmy Purdy [00:37:34]:
There's no high pressure sales to try to, like, make it up for that free and that, in quotes, free inspection, you know, and it works well for us. But I want to. I wanted to ask you a little bit before we get out of here about the BDG groups, because I know you're a big part of those, and if anybody's looking at joining one or doesn't have one in their area. So currently, I'm working with a lot of other Napa auto care centers in my area to try to get one put together.

John Eppstein [00:37:59]:
Great.

Jimmy Purdy [00:38:00]:
And I just. I guess one of the things everybody wants to know because they got to pay money to be into the group, right?

John Eppstein [00:38:07]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:38:07]:
What do I get? What do I get out of it? You know? Like, what. What is it that benefits me if I got to pay to be a part of this group?

John Eppstein [00:38:15]:
Right. And, you know, it's funny because we've had three very different BDG groups in the 25 years that I've been here in San Diego. And the very first one that when I first joined, I walked into, they just got together, hung out, talked about whatever that was. That was it at the end of the day, which was good, they didn't pay a lot of money. But if nothing else, you know, if I had a problem, I could call you up and say, you know, hey, you know, saw you at the meeting last, you know, whatever. I got a question for you. I hear, you know, I remember you're the BMW guy. Oh, yeah, sure, not a problem.

John Eppstein [00:38:56]:
You know, it opens that door to ask questions of, you know, people that. That, you know, might be able to help you. Then I discussed the, you know, the group that we did the marketing, you know, together, which none of. None of the stuff we ever did really worked well for me, so. And then we transitioned into the one we've had for about the last ten years, and we do community service. We give away a vehicle or two. This year, we've decided that we're going to just support. So, like, I work with the boys and girls clubs, so the BDG is going to support one of my events.

John Eppstein [00:39:40]:
If somebody else does breast cancer, they're going to support their event. Somebody else is going to do a school, whatever. So we're going to work with each other's stuff. And that comes back to. With your strengths. It only works if you tell your customers what you're doing, you know. So I've done community service since I opened my shop. You know, I've been.

John Eppstein [00:40:06]:
I worked for the boys clubs, boys and girls club for 23, 24 years. I think I was. My first year I started working, you know, I started working with the clubs. So, um, it's, uh, I. I found, you know, like, when I first started doing community stuff, I was doing it for the right reasons, but I didn't tell anybody because I felt like if I told people, they were gonna look down and be like, oh, you're just doing.

Jimmy Purdy [00:40:38]:
You're just doing. You're just doing that for the publicity.

John Eppstein [00:40:41]:
And so for quite a few years, I, you know, we just kind of putzed along. We did our thing. But I. What I discovered is, if you're doing it for the right reasons, that's awesome, but you have to tell people, and if one of the big reasons that you have to tell people, like, I do a toy drive. I've done a toy drive for the last 20 years. I have customers who come in in June, July. You guys are doing your toy drive, right? Because I've been shopping and I got toys. Oh, absolutely.

John Eppstein [00:41:13]:
You know, people. People want to do good things, but they don't know who they can trust. You know, it's kind of like, you know, that homeless guy comes up to you on the street corner and asks for a buck. What's the first thing that goes through your mind? Well, is he going to buy alcohol, drugs?

Jimmy Purdy [00:41:30]:
What's it for?

John Eppstein [00:41:32]:
Right? You don't. You don't know. There's. There's that lack of trust, and it's the same with a lot of, you know, charities and stuff. Is this really a good charity? Well, by me putting my name on the boys and girls club, my customers know me like me, love me, and they're going to be like, well, if he's working with them, it's got to be a good charity. So this is awesome. Now I get it. You know, I can work with them as well.

John Eppstein [00:41:55]:
Now I have a place that I can put my efforts into, and they're not going to match my efforts, but it's just, it gives them that comfort that, hey, I'm going to do that. So. So, like, with the vehicle donation, you know, we've given it to some military, we've given the families. You know, we had one lady eight or nine years ago that she had some autoimmune problems. Her daughter was allergic to food, couldn't eat, had a feeding tube. That's the only way she could eat. Sun, heart problems, spent all her money. Her transmission blew up in her vehicle.

John Eppstein [00:42:38]:
We gave her a van. We put a Christmas tree on the van because they didn't have anything. We put decorations in the van. We gave her presents for the kids, $1,500, whatever it was. To this day, she still comes in, she's gotten, she still struggles, but she used that van for six or seven years, and then she got into a different vehicle. And we still service her vehicles, and half the time we don't even charge her. But we don't tell that story very often. Originally, we put it out there, but we've given away one or two vehicles for the last, I think, ten years.

John Eppstein [00:43:18]:
But it comes back to, we have to promote it, put it on your Facebook page, you put it on your website, and things like that. Otherwise, you really don't get much benefit out of it other than you feel good right at the end of the day.

Jimmy Purdy [00:43:32]:
Yeah, well, you got it. I mean, the whole point is to show others that are in need that you're willing to do that as well. You know, like, it's not so much being selfish and, like, trying to use that, right? Like, it's definitely, I think, a little bit of like, hey, you know, if you're need, come ask. We're willing to help if you're. If you actually need the help, but it's like the homeless guy with the dollar, it's like, do you actually need the help right now? Like, right. You actually, actually need this you know, but without you spreading the word, knowing that you're willing to participate in a program like that, like, no one else that actually needs that help is gonna come up and ask you, because most of the people that are, you know, like, most people that need help don't ask.

John Eppstein [00:44:10]:
Right.

Jimmy Purdy [00:44:11]:
Can use and need the help. They. The ones that usually don't ask.

John Eppstein [00:44:14]:
Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. But, you know, that, like, that's. That's one of the key things that. That works for the Napa group. You know, we have kind of a hybrid one. It used to be like, I was a president of our BDG group a long time ago, but what we found is that the shop owners don't have the bandwidth to successfully run the group. We just don't have, you know, we don't have the knowledge, we don't have the time. We don't.

John Eppstein [00:44:43]:
Just don't have the resources. So one of our, one of the Napa guys now runs it, and he does a lot of this stuff. So we built a website as a BDG member, you get some training that's free. You know, you get some other things that are paid for. So we get our value out. I think we charge $150 a month per member, and then we do this other thing where we do the vehicle giveaways or whatever, whatever charity community event. So there's a lot of different things that. That you can do.

John Eppstein [00:45:19]:
Basing it off marketing probably isn't the best idea just because of the fact that, like I said, you're gonna find, you know, the marketing is not gonna work well across the, you know, across the board with, like, with all your members.

Jimmy Purdy [00:45:31]:
So it opens conversations, though. I mean, it definitely sounds like there's a lot of value built into just having a community like that. I mean, like, you kind of started this whole thing with talking about your. The twenties group. I mean, and it's like, how powerful are those? And we're part of it. We're part of one as well. That's got nine or eight or nine different shops in it as well. And we meet up once a month with our composite partners, and every quarter we go, we all meet together.

Jimmy Purdy [00:45:54]:
And having something local, like. So you've seen the difference between those two. Do you find more or less value in something local versus. That's nationwide? Do you see any difference?

John Eppstein [00:46:06]:
There's value. There's value in both. I'm a huge proponent of joining organizations that are going to have a positive impact on your business. There's not, you know, there's not just like this one group did everything for me. You know, I'm part of ASCCA as part of a 20 group, as part of the Napa business development group, I'm part of some other groups, and I've all gotten great stuff out of each one. You know, you make. You know, you meet people, you make friends. You know, you learn.

John Eppstein [00:46:43]:
You know, you just learn from people just having conversations. Another cool thing, like, I'll go and visit people's shops now, you know, I've been around so long, I'll just go visit people. And we have. We have conversations like, hey, come look at my shop. Tell me what you think. And so I go and I look, and it's like, ooh, look at that. That's awesome. You know, I never would have thought of that.

John Eppstein [00:47:03]:
So I go, I help them, and in turn, I learn, you know? You know, I get something out of it as well, you know? And so, like, you know, let's say, you know, you do a BDG group, you know, maybe you guys should, you know, each meeting, have the. Have a meeting in somebody else's shop, you know, and offer, you know, hey, let's go 30 minutes early, and we'll take a tour of the shop.

Jimmy Purdy [00:47:26]:
Yeah.

John Eppstein [00:47:27]:
And. And we can talk about whatever. You know, we can share ideas and thoughts and. Because people will pick up a lot of stuff, you know, when they'll just see something, be like, oh, that's awesome, you know, because we can't think of everything. We only. We only know what we know. So when you. When you go to other shops, that's really cool.

John Eppstein [00:47:47]:
The. The national stuff is. Is different because you can talk more about pricing and things like that. You know, if you start talking about pricing with guys, your neighborhood, that tends to get kind of, you know, it's kind of a gray area.

Jimmy Purdy [00:48:01]:
Yeah, just a gray area.

John Eppstein [00:48:03]:
Yeah, yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:48:04]:
Everybody wants to do. What's your labor rate like? Yeah, like, hold on a second. Let's, like, back up a little bit here. This.

John Eppstein [00:48:09]:
Yeah. There's a better way of coming up with your labor rate than asking me what mine is.

Jimmy Purdy [00:48:14]:
So there it is. That was well said. I'm gonna steal that one, if you don't mind.

John Eppstein [00:48:19]:
Yeah, absolutely.

Jimmy Purdy [00:48:21]:
That was simple to the point, you know?

John Eppstein [00:48:22]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:48:24]:
And I think. I think the main thing, though, is just open the doors and realizing that we're all, like, not in competition with one another, you know, and, like, realizing that your neighbor. Like, we're kind of. We're all comrades. Like, we're all trying to do this thing together. And I think when you first. I mean, especially when I first started, it's like you're just trying to be better than everybody else in the. In the area, right? Like, why am I fighting the community that we can build together and grow stronger? So.

John Eppstein [00:48:51]:
Right. Well, this is how I look at it. So I'm in San Diego. I'm gonna guess there's 2 million cars in San Diego. Even with my three shops, I can't even come close to fixing 3 million cars. 2 million cars, 1 million car. You know, whatever. I just can't do it, you know? And do I want to compete against the guy that's gonna charge $75 an hour, that's gonna give no warranty, has no insurance, and he's gonna be out of business in six months? Months? Or am I going to try to help the shops around me to come up and charge the right prices, take care of their customer? You know, there's, I don't know, 30, 40 shops in my neighborhood.

John Eppstein [00:49:37]:
We can't fix all the cars that are in our neighborhood. There's no way. So that's kind of. That's kind of how I look at it. And selfishly, I want the shops around me to charge the right price, charge for their work, don't give stuff away, you know, there's. There's. I always. I always tell people that, you know, the best way to take care of your customers? Make sure you keep your doors open and be there a year or two from now when they have a warranty issue.

Jimmy Purdy [00:50:02]:
Right. And pay your guys enough so that they're happy to show up the next day.

John Eppstein [00:50:06]:
Absolutely.

Jimmy Purdy [00:50:07]:
In the next year, and they can go buy a house, and they can take care of their family and so on and so forth, you know.

John Eppstein [00:50:12]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:50:14]:
Well, John, this is a. This has been good. I'm glad you came on.

John Eppstein [00:50:17]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:50:19]:
Talk about, right?

John Eppstein [00:50:20]:
Yeah, yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:50:23]:
For 25, 30, you said you've been 25 years.

John Eppstein [00:50:26]:
Yeah, 26.

Jimmy Purdy [00:50:28]:
You got stories to tell, man.

John Eppstein [00:50:30]:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:50:31]:
I'm just barely scratching the surface, so I'm glad I was able to get a little bit, just a little bit of your knowledge from you.

John Eppstein [00:50:36]:
Yeah, yeah. Well, if you ever have, you know, a certain topic that you, you know, you want to go over or something, you know, you can feel free to reach out, you know, the community stuff, I'm really, you know, that's a big thing for me. I'm always happy to talk about the community stuff and, you know, anything else, you know, I'm happy to chat.

Jimmy Purdy [00:50:55]:
That's awesome. And the name of the shop is John's.

John Eppstein [00:50:58]:
John's automotive care down in San Diego.

Jimmy Purdy [00:51:01]:
I'll have to stop by next time I'm in the area.

John Eppstein [00:51:03]:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I just don't come early in the morning. I tend to not be here early in the morning. 09:00 at night. There's a better chance I'll be here.