Gearbox Podcast

Jimmy Purdy [00:00:13]:
Welcome to the Gearbox podcast. I'm your host, Jimmy Purdy. On this podcast, we're not just exploring the latest trends and technologies in the automotive industry. We're also getting real about the journey. Yes, the bumpy road of mistakes and lessons learned hard along the way. This is the Gearbox podcast. I do a lot of live radio as well, and so it's hard to go back and forth, you know, because I gotta. I gotta remember, you know, when I'm on the radio that I can't edit it, so I have to be.

Jimmy Purdy [00:00:47]:
I'm better to default that way, right? Like, it's probably to default better. As if everything's live all the time and not worry about editing. So it's. Sometimes it's nice, like, oh, we can just have a. A conversation and then we can just edit that out later because I forget we can do that.

Coralee Zueff [00:01:03]:
Sounds good. Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:01:05]:
I'm sure you're the same thing with, with, with your coaching, you know, when you. When you probably got to be kind of selective in the way you. You talk to your clients, I would imagine.

Coralee Zueff [00:01:14]:
I think it's more. So, what, rabbit holes to not go down today.

Jimmy Purdy [00:01:20]:
I like that one. What do you mean by that?

Coralee Zueff [00:01:22]:
Like, not to get off track. So, um, you know, lifetime.

Jimmy Purdy [00:01:27]:
I like going off track.

Coralee Zueff [00:01:30]:
No, we're getting into lifetime, lifetime transmission fluid and longer oil change intervals so we can talk about the mechanical aspect of, you know, why you shouldn't run long oil change intervals. But then getting into why the manufacturers wrecking, recommending them specifically, and then getting the government involved, it's like, okay, we won't go down that rabbit hole.

Jimmy Purdy [00:01:52]:
Oh, I see. Yeah. Yeah. You get real political really quick.

Coralee Zueff [00:01:55]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:01:55]:
And all of a sudden. And then all of a sudden, 45 minutes go by and nobody's learned anything.

Coralee Zueff [00:01:59]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:02:01]:
We just vented about. About the government for 45 minutes, which is pretty easy to do.

Coralee Zueff [00:02:06]:
Fortunately, I'm in Canada, so I think we have different. Different things to rant about.

Jimmy Purdy [00:02:12]:
Oh, man. Yeah, totally different. So some. Some I appreciate and others are like, that doesn't make sense to me, but, you know.

Coralee Zueff [00:02:19]:
Exactly. Same, same thing. Mutual feeling.

Jimmy Purdy [00:02:23]:
But Coral Lee, did I say that right?

Coralee Zueff [00:02:26]:
Yes, that's right.

Jimmy Purdy [00:02:27]:
Okay, perfect. And we're talk a little bit about advising and coaching advisers. I think that's. I think it's overlooked. I. I think the office needs to be staffed more than I think they really are. I know from the small amount I can understand is the ratio where you want two technicians per advisor, three technician. What's your standpoint on that.

Jimmy Purdy [00:02:53]:
How do you feel is a comfortable range?

Coralee Zueff [00:02:55]:
It's always a question that I ask shop owners when I'm talking about doing coaching with them and what's going on in the shop is how many advisors do they have to how many technicians. So if the advisor's looking up labor and parts and everything like that, it's different than if it's in a, a dealership aspect because they're doing essentially everything.

Jimmy Purdy [00:03:18]:
So that's a Good point.

Coralee Zueff [00:03:20]:
So 2 to 1 is very doable. 3 to 1 for service advisors who know their technicians and have been in the job a while. Four is too many. It can be done for, you know, a limited amount of time if somebody is out sick or holidays or something like that. But the shop will go downhill fairly quickly if it's like a four to one ratio. I find.

Jimmy Purdy [00:03:43]:
Yeah, just missing phone calls and not taking the time they should. I, I like the idea of having maybe more, more office than not. So that way you're not missing sales opportunities and phone calls. And I think that's kind of frowned upon from my, my brief interaction with other coaching and other advisor trainers. No, you have to, it's too much office. Right. And it's like ah, I mean because throughout the day the phone rings off the hook and then all the times there's, it's quiet and then everyone can get caught up. So it's really hard for me to wrap my head around the fact of watching a phone ring off the hook or watching the tech stand around waiting for the advisor to write up a ticket.

Jimmy Purdy [00:04:21]:
Like well what do you choose? Oh, just let the phone go to voicemails. Like I don't like that. And then I also don't like paying someone to stand on the floor not doing anything. So that's a really difficult thing to try to manage.

Coralee Zueff [00:04:32]:
Yeah. I haven't come out to a shop that has too many service advisors and front end staff yet. There's always something to do and something that can be leveled up. Like our first responsibility, we got to keep the technicians busy because when the technicians are busy, cars are getting fixed, the shop is making income as well as customers are being kept happy because their cars are getting worked on. If we have that flow going. So if we have that good ratio and we have extra hands, there's always other things that could be done like, like we could do more for quality control, you know, for you know, making sure cars are, are parked properly, doing follow ups, pre scheduling appointments, things like this. So there's always something else that we can level up as service advisors.

Jimmy Purdy [00:05:15]:
I see what you're saying. So yeah, you can, you can't ever have too much front end because you should be able to find something for them to do to level up as you have encountered it yet is that, that's the point. I guess you're, you were, you're leaning towards and then I, I, I've just recently enacted having the advisors go out and do the intake on the vehicle. How's your like how does your training start or how do you see the advisor in that role? And as far as like setting expectations for them coming in?

Coralee Zueff [00:05:42]:
Setting expectations is very important. That's like one of the main things that we need to do as advisors to eliminate having upset or angry customers. If we're able to set expectations that we can meet for starters. And like you mentioned too, with the walk around the intake process, when they're coming in, if we're not feeling rushed as advisors, it really gives us a chance to talk to the customer, get to know them, go out to the vehicle, find some rapport. Maybe there's kid seats or sports gear or something like that. If the vehicle is coming in for diagnostics, we can have a look at that oil change decal and see if maybe that's coming due as well. That's always my pet peeve is if we bring a vehicle in and they end up spending thousands of dollars on repairs and then as it's going out we realize it's due for, for an oil change in like a month or so. It's like oh, you know, if we could take care of that all in one visit and then they don't have anything to worry about.

Coralee Zueff [00:06:39]:
Give them some peace of mind then that's my goal is to make things as seamless as possible for the customers as well as for us.

Jimmy Purdy [00:06:46]:
So where do you draw the line for advisors as far as the check in process? I know like some of it kind of bleeds into like the, so does the technician put this oil sticker on? Does the technician, you know, take intake vehicles of pictures around or does the advisor. How does, how do you see that?

Coralee Zueff [00:07:05]:
I think it depends on how the shop is staffed as well as what, what the comfort level and knowledge is of the, the service advisor.

Jimmy Purdy [00:07:16]:
I see, so you're okay how the.

Coralee Zueff [00:07:17]:
Shop flow is like maybe the oil change decals are going to print out in the shop or maybe they're being handwritten for example and it could be maybe you know, the shop isn't overwhelmed at one time and the technicians can Help the advisors, you know, doing the walk around or the service advisors can also help out the technicians as well. So it's not really a set in stone thing of, you know, this is what we need to do and this is there. It's, we need to work together and help each other out. If somebody's, you know, in the weeds and, and it's within our ability to do that than we do. I mean, if the technicians aren't, I have somebody that's in between jobs and somebody comes in for wiper blades, then the technicians can do that while, you know, I'm printing off paperwork for them or getting approval on something, or if they're all in the middle of something, then, you know, I'll go out and throw wiper blades on a car as well. It's not like, you know, this is my job and this is your guys's job. There's a bit of, there can be a bit of flow and help there.

Jimmy Purdy [00:08:12]:
Yeah. So what you're saying, there's, there's no right or wrong answer?

Coralee Zueff [00:08:16]:
I guess there's a right and wrong answer for what works with every shop.

Jimmy Purdy [00:08:20]:
Yeah, there's no, there's no black and white though. It seems to be a lot and you probably follow a lot, you know, on the Facebook groups and on the forums is like trying to find the right way. Right. Everyone's just trying to find the silver bullet or the right way and it's like really just got to keep trying new things to see what works. And I like your approach because you're really looking at the whole shop as a whole and, and not just saying, oh, we're just going to do advisory training. It sounds like you incorporate the processes of what the technicians are doing, what the owner wants, what the facility can do, and then evolving something around that process. That's the vibe I'm getting anyway.

Coralee Zueff [00:08:55]:
Yeah. So I started off in the automotive foundations program. So I have a background in or like started off looking at being a technician and it wasn't for me, but it gave me a background of understanding some mechanical knowledge in the workings of vehicles and then what the technicians are going through as well. So I always try to take that into account in doing my job as service advising. And I've also gone into automotive sales as well. So I have that background as well. So I can kind of mix it all together to, to come up with a system that works.

Jimmy Purdy [00:09:29]:
That's the only way that makes sense. There's too many cookie cutter responses, Right. That are out there and too many this is exactly what, how it needs to be done and it doesn't work for everybody. And then, and then diving into the psychology in the minds. You were talking a little bit before we jumped on the recording about the last thing. I don't know if you want to dive back into that a little bit, but that was pretty interesting.

Coralee Zueff [00:09:50]:
Okay, yeah, like, about the diagnostic processes. I was just teaching a class for explaining diagnostics, repairs and, and maintenance for service advisors. And we kind of work in efficiency of the shop as well. And how much time should we get approved for diagnostics on a vehicle? What the advisor and the shop owner and the technicians decide is an appropriate amount of time. So if it's too short, then as service advisors, we're going into the shop and disrupting the technician from diagnosing their vehicle to let them know we need to get more time approved to work on it. And then they're on hold while we're calling the customer to get more time approved as well. Whereas if we know approximately how long diagnostics are taking in the shop and how much time we should be quoting out for, then it's a load off of us as service advisors because we're not bugging the technicians and calling the customers repeatedly. And it gives the technicians a peace of mind so they can just focus on what they're doing.

Coralee Zueff [00:10:51]:
Because vehicles are getting more complex now and things require focus. Just thinking about, like when we get disrupted doing a task in our life, how long it, you know, throws us off. So thinking about the technicians on that as well. And then if the customer is busy at home, maybe their kids are napping or they're at work and it's a very demanding job for us to call them just to ask for approval and disrupt their day. It adds to that. So if we can figure out what the sweet spot is for getting time approved for, for diagnosing items, then it makes everybody's life easier. And that's, that's one of my goals, is I want less stress for me, less stress for the shop, less stress for the tech, for the customer as well.

Jimmy Purdy [00:11:34]:
Yeah, really focusing on the experience. You know, it's funny you brought that up because one thing I was just thinking about here recently was, was that was the diagnostic labor rate. And obviously we need to charge for it. I mean, that's the free diag stuff. I mean, I can see how that works on like a bigger scale, but I think the majority of us kind of land in that middle section as far as small shop owners. And this is who we're Speaking to. Right. How do we make sure we're not pricing ourselves out of that job but also that we're charging appropriately.

Jimmy Purdy [00:12:07]:
And one of the things I had come up with was trying to do like a diagnostic flowchart for the advisors where if it comes in with a certain code, you know, know certain codes should have a standard rate depending on how many hours you start with the task. Right. So if you had something come in with say an evap code like a PO400, you know, series code, we know we're going to be doing a smoke test. So it's immediately going to be one and a quarter for a smoke test. Whereas maybe something with a misfire, you know, you could start it with like a standard like 45 minutes to an hour. Right. And obviously it depends on the, the capability of your technicians and like who in there is good, what. But I think in standard practice, like U codes, right.

Jimmy Purdy [00:12:48]:
Communication codes, we could probably put two and a half hours on those pretty much right away. And it's not so much the time it takes, but it's the equipment involved and the intelligence of the technician. I mean you gotta, I mean I think we should all be pretty good at canned communication lines if you want to be considered an A level technicians as do an air quotes or you know. But yeah, it's funny you brought that up cause I was just thinking about how do we figure out a way of doing that to expedite that process. So we're not. Well, let's start with an hour and see where that takes us. Because it's exactly what you just said. There's this whole.

Jimmy Purdy [00:13:21]:
Okay, well what about after that hour let's stop like short selling ourselves and stop and start thinking about the future a little bit more. Because in an hour there's going to be, there's going to be a phone call made and sometimes we get lucky, we find it in an hour and everybody's happy. But the majority, I feel like, and like to your point, cars are getting more complex Flex. The majority is after that hour someone's making a phone call. And whether or not we can get a hold of anybody at that time, it's going to stop the presses and that's where we lose a lot of money.

Coralee Zueff [00:13:51]:
So that's one thing we were talking about like you know, in, in service advisor training. I can't, I don't want to set up, you know, how long everything should take. And it made. Every shop has different equipment and the technicians have different experience, they're working on different vehicles. So Encouraged the advisors who are in the class to go back to the shop and open up a dialogue with the technicians, with the owner, so that they can come up with like a chart that you were describing so that the advisor knows what kind of time to put on what sort of diagnostic, communicate that with the customer so that everyone's life is flowing as easily as possible.

Jimmy Purdy [00:14:29]:
Do you have any examples you can kind of share that would kind of off that kind of mindset of where someone could start with that as far as trying to share that dialogue.

Coralee Zueff [00:14:42]:
So in the class, like we were talking about today, because as advisors and like you mentioned, diagnostic can come off as being like this quick scan thing that other places may do. And we really have to build value to the diagnostic process. So we were talking about getting to know what kind of equipment is in the shop, getting to know our technicians background and history and education and stuff like that, so that we as advisors, even if we're not sharing it with all the customers to come in, that we believe that we're going to get to the bottom of their problem, that we're the best place for the customer to bring their vehicle, for starters, and to set up a time for, to meet with the group to talk about how to make their lives as efficient as possible and to flow well. Because we've all been there where things aren't working at the shop. And it is very frustrating, right? Like if there's a communication breakdown between the service advisor and the customer, the advisor and technician, it can be very draining and exhausting. And then, you know, we think about not wanting to even stay where we're at, but we don't want to get to that place. We want to open up the dialogue, be like, okay, not, maybe not in the middle of the diagnostics before, you know, before we open or at the end of the day or something like that, Plan a staff meeting and everybody can talk about, you know, where we can, where we can improve. You know, I had to get disrupted here.

Coralee Zueff [00:16:06]:
I know that this stuff takes me an hour and a half to diagnose. So why are we getting approval for, you know, an hour or something like that, right? So it's really a group effort and a team and then I encourage them too. It's like, okay, well, I've told you guys to, you know, check in with the technicians when they're doing updated training and see what they learned. It's like, okay, we may have learned about this module or something like that. Just to know and feel that the technicians are valuable as well. So go back and share with them. Like, okay, we were talking about how much time we should get approved for diagnostics. So I'm gonna start making notes of everything that's taking longer than what I'm getting approved for.

Coralee Zueff [00:16:46]:
I'd like you guys to do the same, and then let's find out how we should be more efficient together.

Jimmy Purdy [00:16:51]:
Yeah, it's. It's a lot that, that's one of those things that are easier said than done, but.

Coralee Zueff [00:16:57]:
Yeah, but easier than getting frustrated and mad. Right?

Jimmy Purdy [00:17:01]:
Like, it's a consistency thing. Right. It's something you got to work on every single week. And then hopefully people, they, they, they'll communicate with you. And then there's the other side of the coin. It's like, okay, well, you have a technician that's not really strong in a certain diagnostic aspect, so do you now sell that customer three hours of D? Really should take an hour and a half because the level of competency isn't there. So there's also that, you know, not to, not, not, not to go down that route. But obviously it's.

Jimmy Purdy [00:17:30]:
It's one of the problems right now in this industry that we're facing is just unskilled technicians, right. Technicians that think they are more skilled than they really are. And then you have a lot of really great positive things coming out of them. And then you get this consistent pattern of, of misdiagnosis. And you get the, the culture clash, right? Where the, the distrust comes in. And now long. No longer the advisors trusting what the technician is saying. So now we're selling more hours to give them more time to help, in quotes, help them, you know, to try to figure it out.

Jimmy Purdy [00:18:03]:
That's really tough to, to watch that unfold in your own shop. When the advisors stopped trusting the technicians over a few bad, you know, misdiagnosises, that, that drives me crazy. But I don't know how to fix that either. I don't know if that's something that you've run across with. With other shop owners as well, with.

Coralee Zueff [00:18:21]:
Kind of losing trust in the technicians.

Jimmy Purdy [00:18:24]:
Yeah. In the diagnosis, in the diagnostic process. Right. When they call out something, hey, I think this is. I think the pcm's bad right now. Now they're selling a 2200 whatever it is, cost pcm. And then we get it in. Put it in doesn't fix the problem.

Jimmy Purdy [00:18:41]:
Right. And now that conversation with the customer's got to be made. Hey, so. Well, I think the injectors are bad, and the injectors are what took the PCM out. And so now there's like this lie, like this white lie that has, that has to be folded into the mix to try to make everything seem okay. But the next time around, whatever that call out from the technician is, I'm not quite sure I trust that. So then we lose that sale because we don't have the confidence in it as well. So.

Jimmy Purdy [00:19:09]:
And I know we're kind of going off a little bit skewed from what we were talking about, but it's another issue that I, I read a lot about on these group forums. Right. That I've seen in person. And it's. And it happens. It's. It's something that, you know, you get. You get busy, you make a wrong.

Jimmy Purdy [00:19:25]:
You make a wrong call and the wrong part was called out, and all of a sudden, wow, well, I'm not really going to trust the next thing you call out as a repair because you just made me eat my own. You know, my words on the last one. And I told the customer that this $2,500 part was going to fix the car, and it didn't. That's a really hard thing to come back from.

Coralee Zueff [00:19:46]:
Yeah, that's kind of two different aspects I'll go into, like, sort of the, the first thing like I was talking about in the training today is like, as a service advisor, if I was getting on a job interview, I'd be asked, like, what do you do when you have angry or upset customers? I was like, oh, what are they upset about? Why are they angry? Upset? It's like, price, it's too much, the vehicle is taking too long. So I'm like, well, if I encounter an angry, upset customer where it's taking too long or it costs too much money, as an advisor, I'm looking at where I screwed up in my line of communication. So I'm not, you know, blaming the customer or anything like that. It's something that I did. So as an advisor, if I screwed something up, I want to look into it and see where I went wrong. So I kind of hope that the technicians would do the same. I mean, we're all humans. We're all going to make mistakes.

Coralee Zueff [00:20:38]:
When I get a diagnosis from a technician, I'll usually get their steps laid out and have them walk me through, you know, what they did as well so that I can comfortably explain it to the customer and that they can confidently explain it to me as well. So I guess holding technicians accountable to that too. I don't get too many or not encountering misdiagnosis because we have to like prove it conclusively. We're not guessing at things. We don't want to be like, you know, the parts cannon kind of a thing. We want to have a solid concrete answer that we can back up.

Jimmy Purdy [00:21:18]:
Yeah, I think it probably goes back to the processes of the shop, right. To make sure you have a good 4C or 5C, you know, confirm, you know, get the, the, the cause, the correction, the confirmation. Right. Make sure you get that process and make sure people slowing down. But I think, I think you, what you said with the communication is just having that trust built and having the advisors be able to say, hey, so, you know, does this sound right? And then having the mechanical aptitude behind that, right. If it comes in for a misfire and they're oh, well, maybe, you know, and they call something way off out of the blue. It's like that doesn't make any sense. Right.

Jimmy Purdy [00:21:55]:
And, and I think sometimes it happens with new technicians that come in trying to prove themselves in a shot maybe. And it's a new atmosphere, right? Everything's new and they get thrown right into the wolves, right? Like, oh, I got this new. A technician, he's supposed to be the, the end all, be all, all my problems are gone now. So it throws them right into the mix. The hardest jobs that are in the shop, instead of giving them a few weeks to kind of get acclimated to the atmosphere and yeah, it's just, it's a tough thing to be on the, on the counter and then constantly get input that that's wrong and you're trying to sell these jobs and having that trust that breaks down, it's just a really difficult thing as an advisor. And I think that's another thing that's missed a lot of the time too, because then obviously that creates that divide and then, then it really starts going downhill.

Coralee Zueff [00:22:44]:
Yeah, yeah, I guess, you know, when, when somebody is making a mistake in the shop, you know, rather than it being something that I'm trying to backpedal and stuff like that, that's when we're just going to have to have the conversation with the customer of, of, you know, when we make mistakes too. And then I won't be thinking that the technician's making a mistake next time as well, because we would have gone over that and he's going to. Gonna learn from that as well and has grown from it. We've all screwed stuff up. Right, but is it. We're just gonna ignore it and let them keep going on like that or, you know, Shop foreman, owner or somebody gonna, we're gonna talk about that and we're all gonna learn from it. Okay, well, trying to think of something that might have happened recently, it's kind of on the tip of my brain, but not quite there. You know, then we're setting up a, setting up kind of like a shop process.

Coralee Zueff [00:23:38]:
It's like, okay, well, we've encountered this and it's something we hadn't seen before and we kind of, you know, how can we make it better now?

Jimmy Purdy [00:23:46]:
And accountability. You know, it sounds like the shop owners that you deal with are on an, on kind of a higher level. And it sounds like it's not a real big problem that you run across a lot because it sounds like those systems and processes are kind of already in place and they're having these, these weekly meetings to say, hey, look, we're communicating here and if there's a weak link, we're going to find it really quickly. And I've, I've realized that's, that's really important too, to have those meetings and make sure everyone is comfortable enough to say something about it. Because there could be a shop, someone's listening right now where they got a tech that's just constantly calling out bad things and the advisors are passing the jobs back and forth and no one wants to say anything and no one gives them any good jobs. Now the tech's feeling burnt out because he's not getting the jobs he feels he needs. He's only getting oil changes. And it's just, it's a story you've probably heard a thousand times and I know I've heard it, right? And it's like, this place sucks, right? Like that.

Jimmy Purdy [00:24:38]:
That's what it comes down to. It's like, but why? What ha. And it's like, they're so. And then how do I fix it? Oh man, where do we start?

Coralee Zueff [00:24:49]:
Yeah, I've had a couple like that before where it just seems like, you know, doing private coaching for a shop. We're starting off with service advisor training and then we, you know, find out, oh, this is going on, or oh, this is going on. So while it started off as service advisor training, we've gotten like the whole shop involved sometimes. So done like a, a sit down with everybody from the shop and it's almost turned into like therapy. So, okay, we're going to be fixing this and this.

Jimmy Purdy [00:25:18]:
I love that. How many. I mean, so is that part of your, your process when you go in there? Do you really look at the whole shop as a As a whole, instead of just focusing on the sale, the sales aspect of the service of the advisors in the office.

Coralee Zueff [00:25:33]:
Yeah. So, you know, we talked about like the ratio to service advisor to technicians. So that's something that we look at. And then for the service advisor to be able to sell things, they need to be getting adequate notes from. From the technician. So we need to. Or from, you know, whoever it is in there, whether it be an oil change inspection, for example, like let's say, you know, we've done an oil change and giving the vehicle a good check over and found that there's a clunk in the rear and what do we say? Strut mounts are worn or something like that. Right.

Coralee Zueff [00:26:11]:
So then the technician's letting me know we heard a clunk on the road test. This is what needs to be replaced. This is how we're going to fix it. And then also I get information from them what could happen if it's not done as well. Because I want to anticipate what objections are going to be from the customer also. So that's really part of it. For service advisors to do our job, we need to make sure we're getting adequate information from the shop in order to do that. So I look at the symptoms, what they saw, what's going on with the vehicle, how we're going to solve it, and then what could happen if it's not done.

Coralee Zueff [00:26:48]:
Right. Like could it be put off till later, you know, and then we'll give them a scale of how bad it is and what they could anticipate happening as it gets worse.

Jimmy Purdy [00:26:57]:
Adding the why. I don't think I've thought of that. That's pretty good. Because obviously. Yeah, it always comes up.

Coralee Zueff [00:27:06]:
Yeah. Because then you're countering, you're foreseeing objections. Because as service advisors, objections are draining too. Right. Like I don't want to. And they come across as negative. Well, you know, can I put this off? And blah, blah, blah. You know, it's.

Coralee Zueff [00:27:20]:
It comes across more as a battle.

Jimmy Purdy [00:27:21]:
Or as a fight, only keeping the car for a year.

Coralee Zueff [00:27:24]:
Yeah, that's right. You know, so while this clunk, well, it's going to get worse. And then do you think you're going to get top dollar for your vehicle if it has this clunk in there? And that's what you're thinking, that it's worse or what it's worth. Right. So having those conversations and, and bringing up those kind of points even before the customer use them as objections, what.

Jimmy Purdy [00:27:45]:
It'S worth, that's a Good one. I like, I like that because that's, that's, that's probably the toughest objection that I hear and I hear other people talk about I'm never going to get that money back out of it. And it's that, that's a tough one to, to overcome. Right. Because you're right, the car's worth what, eight, nine grand? And you're gonna put eight grand into it. Especially us being transmission shop, like that's a big one we get all the time. Like, I can't put that kind of money into this car. It's not even worth it.

Jimmy Purdy [00:28:16]:
Well, I'll let you take it from there.

Coralee Zueff [00:28:20]:
I don't know.

Jimmy Purdy [00:28:20]:
Do you have any, any pointers on, on those kinds of situations then?

Coralee Zueff [00:28:24]:
It might be decision making time. Right. Like, okay, well, we've, you know, realized the cost is exceeding the value of the vehicle. And, and do we want to keep it going or do we not want to it? You know, there's times where you have to have those conversations with customers as well.

Jimmy Purdy [00:28:40]:
Yeah.

Coralee Zueff [00:28:40]:
It might not be palliative care. What are we going to do?

Jimmy Purdy [00:28:44]:
Well, I always tell them, you know, if you look at the cost and then divide it over 12 months, still cheaper than a, than a new car payment, right?

Coralee Zueff [00:28:52]:
That is true.

Jimmy Purdy [00:28:53]:
And if it's warrantied for three years, you can divide that over the next 36 months. Right. So you take eight grand divided by 36, it's like that payment's a lot less than going and buying a new one on payment. So it's, it's a tough one because that's another one that we get a lot of pushback in the industry was trying to, trying to sell stuff unnecessarily or not having that hard conversation, hey, maybe it's time for you to get rid of your vehicle. And it's like, who am I to tell someone that, that they're, they can't keep their grandfather's father's car anymore because it's not worth keeping it? Right. Like, we don't, we don't know where the vehicle's coming from. We don't know the history. We don't know the sentimental value.

Jimmy Purdy [00:29:29]:
Yeah, it's, it's a lot. I mean, I'm not very good on the counter.

Coralee Zueff [00:29:36]:
At least cars you can like park them for three years and then pull them out again as opposed to people. Right. So that at least makes our job easier. If it's an emotional decision, you know, we don't have, they don't have to make it today. So I know, you know, there's other trainers and stuff that want to sell them right now while they're there. But sometimes people need time to think about, especially when there's emotions involved. Right. And getting their finances together.

Coralee Zueff [00:30:01]:
So it's okay to not make a decision right then.

Jimmy Purdy [00:30:05]:
I like that a lot. That makes a lot of sense. Talk about really de. Escalating the situation and like having their back without telling them yes or no. I think that's kind of important. It's a nice way to do it. I mean, I also have. The issue when we first started was just doing transmission repairs and not looking at the rest of the vehicle or not letting them know about things is like, because if we don't do it here, someone else is going to do it.

Jimmy Purdy [00:30:32]:
So there's always that in the back of your mind. But it becomes, it becomes too much. Right. And, and the 300 rule is another one that it just becomes too much very easily. It's a great, it's a great tool in my opinion, if it's used correctly. But I feel like it also can be used incorrectly. Are you familiar with that? The 300 rule?

Coralee Zueff [00:30:53]:
I don't believe so, no.

Jimmy Purdy [00:30:55]:
So 100% of the cars get inspected 100 of the time. And so you're basically making sure that it all gets looked at, it all gets estimated and all gets sent to the customer every single time. So it obviously makes sense. Right. You want to make sure you're being as transparent as possible. But if you put that sales process in place and then you have your advisors on a, on a pay scale where they get a part of your sales and obviously when there's all this presentation involved that's, you know, they're getting a percentage of that. So it pushes that, that MO of making sure you're selling everything and it really slowly starts transitioning into your selling everything shop. Right.

Jimmy Purdy [00:31:36]:
All of a sudden you have 22500 worth of maintenance items and they came in for, you know, a 400 wheel bearing. Right. So it's like, well, now you're selling them more stuff than they came in for. Right. And all they really needed was just that front wheel bearing. But now you're selling them all this maintenance items, that's 1500 or $2000 worth of stuff which it needs. The vehicle does need it. But does it need it?

Coralee Zueff [00:31:59]:
Does it need it today?

Jimmy Purdy [00:32:00]:
There, there it is. That's a great way to put it. Yeah.

Coralee Zueff [00:32:03]:
Whereas if you let them know, okay, you know, if they're talking about budget wise and stuff or they need the vehicle back like at 3:00. It's like, okay, well we notice these things are on your to do list or you know, maintenance wise needed by, you know, date or miles or just from us observing or checking them. We can always reschedule it. We don't need to be scared of not getting it right at that time.

Jimmy Purdy [00:32:28]:
Yeah, and, yeah, exactly.

Coralee Zueff [00:32:31]:
And then I appreciate that.

Jimmy Purdy [00:32:32]:
And then not fixing the problem that came in for making that more of a priority. I think that as a whole is missed. Do you put your sales, when you talk sales, is that your direction? Make sure that, like how does that process work for you to make sure the advisors are capturing why they're in there for. Because I think that's missed a lot.

Coralee Zueff [00:32:53]:
What the advisors are there to advise.

Jimmy Purdy [00:32:56]:
On what, what the customer's bringing their vehicle in for. So say it comes in because it's got a noise and then all of a sudden they're being sold all these maintenance items and the noise isn't really addressed. And it kind of like the culprit of the reason why the vehicles in the shop all of a sudden takes a back seat to all this, this gravy maintenance work.

Coralee Zueff [00:33:14]:
No, we need to address the first customer complaint right at the beginning. We, we have, we shouldn't be calling the customer about other items until we've addressed that first item that they brought it in for.

Jimmy Purdy [00:33:26]:
And do you break that down into like two separate phone calls? Or is it you let them know the maintenance items on the back end? Or how does that process look?

Coralee Zueff [00:33:35]:
I guess it would be different depending on what it's being diagnosed for. Like they're coming in, they have a wheel bearing noise that we're looking at. We're doing an oil change and inspection. So we, so that might be in one phone call to do that, say wheel bearing. Maybe we've noticed the oil change decal there and offer to do the service at the same time as that wheel bearing so that they can, you know, take care of everything while it's here. Because they've already made arrangements to be without their vehicle. Right. In which case that might be in a couple of different phone calls or emails.

Coralee Zueff [00:34:10]:
It depends on the situation in the customer. Or maybe they're coming back to get their vehicle right. At a certain time to go pick up their kids from school, in which case they'll be given the information at that time. We, we just can't take care of it. Then it's sort of, we need to gauge it.

Jimmy Purdy [00:34:27]:
Right.

Coralee Zueff [00:34:28]:
Address that first thing right off the bat, we shouldn't be calling about other stuff unless it's a complete safety issue. Right. Like maybe we've brought it in, put it on the hoist and it's just rusted and falling apart and not safe.

Jimmy Purdy [00:34:43]:
So adding a little bit of the human element to it, I guess, hopefully they can have a little common sense up front. No, and that helps a lot too when you get clients that have been with the shop for a long time. But for us, as we're growing, we're getting a lot of new acquisition and it really throws the sales process and it really has to. You gotta dial it back and slow everything down other than someone throwing the keys and just say, hey, let me know when it's ready to go. Obviously you can't, you can't just run everything exactly the same. Having that little bit of gray area really helps the situation. I mean, we talked a lot about those processes. Now, with your specific coaching, can you run me through kind of how you would set someone up if someone was interested in wanting to contact you about it?

Coralee Zueff [00:35:31]:
Yeah, so I do have my website, corlyzoof.com and there's a way to be able to contact me on there. But most people, we just become Facebook friends and they message me that way too. So there's no, no wrong way, I guess. And I'm also on LinkedIn, so. But Facebook seems to be the main one.

Jimmy Purdy [00:35:51]:
Facebook's a big one. Yeah, LinkedIn. LinkedIn's the big one right now, right? It's supposed to be the new Facebook.

Coralee Zueff [00:35:57]:
Yeah, I think it's. That seems to be more like a businessy kind of aspect. Whereas Facebook, you get to be, you know, real person. You got your hobbies on there and, and kids and family stuff and, and business stuff as well. So you really connect with people on, on a whole human level.

Jimmy Purdy [00:36:16]:
Yeah. And, and so when you, I guess when someone wants to retain you, for lack of better words, do you do like an interview with the shop to make sure you're going to be a good fit or how does that first kind of couple steps work? And then how do you start the process? Is it monthly calls, weekly calls?

Coralee Zueff [00:36:37]:
Yeah, for sure. Totally depends on what the shop needs. I'd usually be contacted. We'll set up a zoom call to have a kind of a face to face meeting and see ratios of technician to advisor and what's going on with their shop and what their goals are. And then depending on what they are, I'll set up a specific outline for how we can achieve meeting Those goals.

Jimmy Purdy [00:37:03]:
I assume, start checking boxes off.

Coralee Zueff [00:37:06]:
Yeah, that's right. And usually I like to start off with something that I, you know, we know we're gonna hit. It's a big thing right off the bat. So oftentimes it's been. How do we word and explain diagnostics?

Jimmy Purdy [00:37:20]:
That seems to be a big hit. Is. Is that a lot of stuff you do in the States or up in. In the northern area?

Coralee Zueff [00:37:30]:
50. 50, I'd say.

Jimmy Purdy [00:37:32]:
Wow.

Coralee Zueff [00:37:33]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:37:33]:
Is there any notable differences you can tell between the two genres?

Coralee Zueff [00:37:39]:
That.

Jimmy Purdy [00:37:39]:
Two different areas. Obviously the rust belt has to have a lot to do with when it comes to the processes.

Coralee Zueff [00:37:45]:
But, yeah, we have some rust here in Canada as well. Yeah. So that's the thing. We don't. Our part suppliers don't do quick scans here, so we don't have that issue that we have to overcome where the word diagnostic has kind of been cheapened and just checking the codes and throwing parts at it. Our part suppliers in Canada, nobody does that. There's a few shops that'll do like free check, engine light scan or something like that. But I feel like our.

Coralee Zueff [00:38:17]:
Our part suppliers don't want to compete with their customers.

Jimmy Purdy [00:38:21]:
Interesting.

Coralee Zueff [00:38:22]:
Even like our full retail. There's a chain up here called Canadian Tire and I worked. I've done some training for them and then used to work there many, many years ago. Oh, maybe like two decades ago now. But even as, like, parts people, we'd. We'd maybe throw wiper blades on for a customer. We'd never do, you know, anything beyond that. We're not.

Coralee Zueff [00:38:45]:
We're not technicians. We're not scanning. We're not doing anything like that.

Jimmy Purdy [00:38:49]:
That's interesting. Kind of. Kind of a better way of doing it. I mean, I run into that all the time. In fact, the radio show I do here locally, I mean, it's something I just throw out there and I get calls and I'm like, you know what, the best thing for you to do is just go down to the local auto parts store and have them scan it, see what the code is. Right. Or go buy a scanner and have it in your car if you want to be a diy. And.

Jimmy Purdy [00:39:10]:
Right. But whatever they tell you, don't just start putting those parts because remember, it's a part store that's telling you which part is going to fix the light. Right. Keep that in mind. Keep that in the back of your head. They are selling parts. That's what their goal is. So I probably wouldn't take what they're telling you and Just go buy that list of top six items that could be causing that problem.

Jimmy Purdy [00:39:32]:
It drives me crazy for the DIYers.

Coralee Zueff [00:39:36]:
That want to give it a try, you know, glad that's an option for them. And yeah, we do have that where customers have their own little scan tool that'll give them a code as well. So we do encounter that from time to time. But it's sort of like a, we can use it as a jumping off point.

Jimmy Purdy [00:39:50]:
Yeah, what's, what I mean is that that's got to come up with a lot of objections, especially here in the states with something you probably run into a lot with trying to sell say $400 of diagnostic.

Coralee Zueff [00:40:01]:
So my example that I like to use like we're, you know, I have shops, some people don't mind the word diagnostic. Some people are like it's a four letter word, you must not even use that word here. So first we have to find the term that the shop wants to use and that everybody's comfortable with. So you know, get out the thesaurus and do we like analyze, do we like discover? Do we like. I had a whole list of words.

Jimmy Purdy [00:40:26]:
Sorry I didn't memorize it. I use advanced assessments. Yeah, we're one of the anti diagnostic shops. So I definitely jumped on that train because I like advanced assessments.

Coralee Zueff [00:40:37]:
Yeah. So we got to come up with first a term that works well for them and having the advisor sort of understand the expensive tools that we have on hand to diagnose it, why our scan tools are better than the little pocket thing that somebody bought on Amazon. And understanding our technicians knowledge and education that they have to be able to get to that, you know, root cause of what's going on with the vehicle. Having examples that we can use as well. Yeah. One that I like or one that I came up with there is, it's kind of a quick scan is kind of like getting a blood test. Right. So you hook it up and you get a code.

Coralee Zueff [00:41:17]:
We go in for a blood test and it tells you maybe you have low iron or you have elevated insulin. Right. But it doesn't tell you actually what's causing that. And we have to do further testing to be able to figure out exactly how to now solve and correct that issue. So the advisor coming up with an example that they're comfortable with. I know other people use like a zip code. Doing a quick scan is like getting a zip code for an area. But we need to get the street and we need to get the address of the house that we need to get to.

Coralee Zueff [00:41:50]:
So we need to do the further investigation to get those.

Jimmy Purdy [00:41:54]:
Which takes time and then we gotta. There's many different ways for that time.

Coralee Zueff [00:41:59]:
That's right, yes. So by, so it kind of is like a, an attitude or an error that the service advisor has about them like that they're not sheepish at saying things. They have a good way of explaining it and not making it sound cheap. Like when we're talking about, you know, our scan tools and, and our technicians education, we're not. Then the customer is not sounding like it's something that we do for free. It's something that the technician had to go to school for to get this special knowledge to be able to get to the bottom of their vehicle.

Jimmy Purdy [00:42:30]:
Yeah. Or spend 10 years in the trade or. But like you said, all the different ways of just making it comfortable for you to explain. Do you spend a lot of time with, with like your coaching clients on like trying to find a unique term that works well for them, coming up.

Coralee Zueff [00:42:46]:
With a term that they're comfortable with? It seems like people already have kind of an idea so, so we can find something that absolutely works well for them that they settle on. Because it seems like the people who don't like diagnostics don't have a set term. So finding something that first works for them and that they're comfortable talking about is the main thing. And then having them come up with an explanation behind that and being 100% confident. I don't like scripts, I don't want to write out my way of saying it because that's how I say it and how I'm comfortable with. But give them like guidelines to put together their own thing that they're comfortable with. Like their own example.

Jimmy Purdy [00:43:26]:
Yeah, that's, yeah, that's about 180 degrees from, from what I've, the advisor training that we've been involved in. So I like that. It's definitely a fresh breath of air because it's, it is true. It's, it's very difficult because you're trying to read line by line on a script instead of. And it's, it's noticeable. Right. If you and I right now were talking off of a piece of paper, if we had written something down before this and we're reading. It's, it's just, it's amazing that we can tell as listeners we can listen to someone read versus if they're just flowing or if something's been, you know, scripted before.

Jimmy Purdy [00:44:00]:
If we're trying to make sure we're hitting certain points. It's really Strange how on the other end of that phone you can tell someone's just reading something or. And you lose the authenticity.

Coralee Zueff [00:44:09]:
I feel like, yeah, they're reciting it and then, you know, as time goes on, you may have done that training a little while ago and had that script, and it's, you know, you're never going to be comfortable with it. So it, you know, peters off and then you get back into old habits. Right. Whereas if you own it and that's your way explaining things, if you're an advisor and you're moving from shop to shop, you're comfortable explaining that process everywhere. That's your wording.

Jimmy Purdy [00:44:34]:
Have you seen that firsthand where maybe someone had some training and you, you came in and kind of said, hey, just do your thing. And they. All of a sudden they just evolved and blossomed. Have you. Have you seen an evolution like that?

Coralee Zueff [00:44:47]:
I think the. Yeah, the cooler evolution seems to be like, when I get somebody green who's never done it before, I'd say that's even neater. I mean, like, when I'm working with advisors who have been doing it for a while, there's like these little, you know, tidbits of things that we get to change. So that gives me, like, the warm and fuzzy feelings. But it's really, you know, somebody who's green and catches on. And if they're in a group, like with seasoned service advisors, it's usually that person that catches on quicker.

Jimmy Purdy [00:45:27]:
Oh, as far as instead of trying to change their habits, just giving them brand new ones.

Coralee Zueff [00:45:31]:
Yeah, Like, I was. I was training. So you have to edit this out. I didn't tell you my brake fluid flush story before, have I?

Jimmy Purdy [00:45:40]:
No.

Coralee Zueff [00:45:40]:
Okay. Just because I've gone over it today, I think multiple times.

Jimmy Purdy [00:45:44]:
Oh, it's fresh in your mind.

Coralee Zueff [00:45:46]:
Yeah, that's right. No, I was training, like, a group of service advisors and two of them were seasoned veterans that have been there for, like, years and been doing it for years. And then this new person who is in with customer service just became an advisor. Like that week that I started training for this shop and we were working on brake fluid flushes and I'd gone over, like, you know, how brake fluid is hydroscopic and the maintenance intervals and how if you don't do it regularly, you can get brake freight and it adjusts or, you know, it affects the stopping distance and can cause damage to other expensive components and blah, blah, blah, everything there and given them, like, word tracks and things to do and nobody was getting it. It's like, oh, and then finally, it's like, okay, everyone, let's go into the shop and just see a brake fluid flush being performed. Okay. Like, let's just see it. And the person who was like, green, she's like, that looks like the car is hooked up to an iv and it's getting nice, clean fluid going into it, and the old stuff's coming out.

Coralee Zueff [00:46:47]:
It's just like a hospital procedure. Blah, blah, blah. The car's getting an iv. So that afternoon, she went out onto the counter and got a recommendation for a vehicle with excessive moisture content, and she sold the first brake fluid flush out of the lot of them.

Jimmy Purdy [00:47:02]:
Wow.

Coralee Zueff [00:47:03]:
So it's. It's oftentimes somebody who's greener and we don't have to, like, untrain things.

Jimmy Purdy [00:47:09]:
Maybe it's a little bit. The excitement, too. Maybe we lose that excitement as we get a little seasoned. As they say, right after you sell the thousandth ones, you're like, oh, here we go again. Right. But when you make that first correlation in your own brain and you're like, oh, it makes sense. And then you just want to tell the whole world about it, and you're just excited about it, that helps a lot too.

Coralee Zueff [00:47:31]:
And that's hard as well.

Jimmy Purdy [00:47:32]:
That's a really hard thing to train, I feel like.

Coralee Zueff [00:47:35]:
Yeah. Whereas the. The ones who had been there for a while, they. They kind of knew it, and then they got out of the habit of doing it. Now we have to, like, push them into it.

Jimmy Purdy [00:47:44]:
Little motivation, a little bit of. What do you call it? Give them a little joy.

Coralee Zueff [00:47:50]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:47:50]:
Make them. Make the. Reinvigorate the fire that was once inside of them. Because I think that's another thing that we lose a lot, too. Remember what we're doing here. We're helping people. We're giving them a means to get their children to and from school. Right.

Jimmy Purdy [00:48:02]:
Sometimes just having the. The shop owner and. And my wife's really good at it, and we just, hey, you guys are doing a really important job, in case you forgot. Because we all got our heads down. We're just thinking about a thousand other things is like, remember, this is an important thing we're doing here. Like, people really appreciate what we're doing. They might not seem like that when they're here paying the bill, but when they got to start the car on Sunday and they want to go to church or they want to go to the beach with their kids, there's a. There is some appreciation there, so.

Coralee Zueff [00:48:30]:
Mm. You save somebody's holiday, I know it's something that we think annoys us. Like, oh, it's Friday of a long weekend, we have a breakdown. But when we're able to like fix it and get them going, it's a, it's a great feeling. Or, you know, you're, you're replacing the transmission or doing extensive work on, you know, during COVID it was, we have to keep the doctors going and people going to the grocery store and stuff. Just keep everything going. Because in automotive we were an essential service as well. So it's just like everyone's vehicle that we're fixing, they have to keep going as well.

Coralee Zueff [00:49:00]:
So, yeah, looking into that, we should have like a little notebook and write down. All these times I try to like save voicemails and, and comments for people in the shop. Like, okay, we'll save this voicemail of somebody really appreciating us working on their vehicle so that when we get to like negative times or we're in the weeds or something like that, we can use that to refresh ourselves. It's like, yeah, even though it doesn't seem like we're appreciated. Remember that time that, you know, we fix his grandma's, you know, seat that wouldn't work and her family had to move it back to get her to her doctor's appointments? Right. And then we were dealing with, with the granddaughter and getting everything going and then her elderly grandma went out of the way to call us to say how much she appreciated as well.

Jimmy Purdy [00:49:43]:
Yeah, exactly. We forget those times pretty easily, don't we? And we just go through, we can have, we can have 505 stars and 21 stars and we just, we just go through trying to find those 1 stars and just read them over and over and over. Just get ourselves all worked up for no reason.

Coralee Zueff [00:50:01]:
Yeah, we don't want to do that. So I guess that goes along with like meeting regularly or semi regularly or just, you know, celebrating what we're doing, right?

Jimmy Purdy [00:50:09]:
Yes, absolutely. Well, Cora Lee, I really appreciate your time. This has been a lot of insightful stuff.

Coralee Zueff [00:50:18]:
Yeah, thank you.

Jimmy Purdy [00:50:19]:
And if, again, if anybody wants to get in touch with you to further the conversation, do you do a consultant or do you want to say what your fees are or any other information you want to give out to anybody?

Coralee Zueff [00:50:33]:
It's, it's on a shop by shop basis for private coaching. I do have classes that service advisors can join and they'll be grouped in with other people from other shop all around North America. And we've had a couple pop in from Australia and from Europe as well. So it's really neat to. To mix with people and see what everybody else is doing. So independents and chains and dealers all kind of meet in the classes that I have going. So I do have a calendar on my website that's like a zoom.

Jimmy Purdy [00:51:05]:
A zoom class.

Coralee Zueff [00:51:05]:
Zoom class. Yeah. So those classes are generally under a hundred dollars to. To take one of those. I was just doing the explaining diagnostics, repairs and maintenance class. So we had a good group in there. Um, and then I have my book on Amazon. So Five Star Service Advisor is kind of what I put all together during COVID of my method of doing things.

Coralee Zueff [00:51:26]:
5 stars Avoid having angry, upset customers.

Jimmy Purdy [00:51:29]:
5 star Service advisor. That's the name of it. And it's on Amazon. Okay, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna order that right now. I love the books. Yes. Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:51:39]:
And anybody listening should order that book too. Read, read, Reading makes you smart.

Coralee Zueff [00:51:45]:
Yeah. And training as well. I know you had mentioned that, you know, keeping up with the ongoing training is. Is really important.

Jimmy Purdy [00:51:52]:
Yep. Well, again, I appreciate your time.