The Gearbox Podcast

Jimmy Purdy [00:00:13]:
My name is Jimmy Purdy, shop owner, master tech, transmission builder, and the host of the Gearbox podcast. Here I talk with new and seasoned shop owners, as well as industry professionals about day to day operations within their own shops and all the failures and successes that come along the way from what grinds your gears to having to shift gears in the automotive industry. This is the Gearbox podcast. Yeah. Well, with the bad stigma, it's interesting to jump right into it like that, you know, in the automotive industry, then have yours here. You say that kind of. I mean, obviously, you're not an outsider, but let me. Not being in the industry.

Jimmy Purdy [00:00:49]:
But I've always. That always intrigues me, running into shop owners that have never been a technician. Right. Like, being able to run a shop without being able to step in and get your hands dirty and like. Yeah, like, kind of in the trenches, I guess they call it. So that's really interesting to. Because I've read, obviously, a lot of your content, and it's all good content. You know, it's like, huh.

Jimmy Purdy [00:01:15]:
So you can look at it from the outside and still have really good perspective without needing to be on the front lines, in a sense, if that makes. That makes sense.

Chris Jones [00:01:23]:
Yeah, I mean, I feel like being an outsider does help a lot. You know, I feel like it gives me a cause. I don't have, like, the challenges of being a shop owner under my belt or the challenges of being a tech or a service advisor or any of those things that you guys have dealt with, or even some of the stigma of just dealing with certain types of customers, et cetera. I'm just kind of way outside with the objective view. Like, okay, I'm just looking at it. I'm looking at it basically as a business. Like, how does it need to run as a business? How do people need to be successful in a business kind of environment? I think that helps a lot.

Jimmy Purdy [00:01:55]:
Yeah, that's just, like, sparking my curiosity, you know? Yeah, I love the different perspectives, man. And it's something I can't get right. Like, so how do you look at it? When do you analyze a shot based on, I mean, what are your kind of key aspects when you're going in to kind of write something up or analyze something like that?

Chris Jones [00:02:14]:
Yes. I'm always looking at it from top to bottom. So you look at the shop owner, you kind of look at the shop owner. Their leadership style, how they communicate, how they govern things, the processes they build, how their teams respond to them, their attitude about customers and customer service, their attitude about team leadership, and then you look at each kind of, you start walking down like the advisors, how they feel about customers, what kind of things motivate them? Do they read certain books? They listen to certain things, podcasts? What gets them excited to come to work every day? Cause I know it's a hard job to have to be customer facing and dealing with people who are, maybe they're frustrated because their cars aren't working or they can't service at a certain time or they've got to wait for parts or whatever. So, you know, how do you deal with that? Like, how, how do you develop the patience to do, to do what you do every single day and not go home dejected or discouraged? And then I look at, like, kind of the harmony between the advisor and the technician because they have, they have to work together. They have to work well together, like, and communicate between each other and kind of find a common language to speak where the advisor can convey to the, to the customer what the technician is saying was accuracy. And then, you know, and then I go back to the heads, and the same with the technician. The technician has to have a level of communication where they can take something that's super technical, like auto repair or whatever the case may be, and break it down into a layman's language and say, hey, this is why your car is unsafe, you know, as opposed, like, well, you need a new water.

Chris Jones [00:03:45]:
Well, why do I need a new water pump? What's the purpose of that? And they can break that down and say, well, you need the water pump because it does this, that and the third. And, you know, if you continue to drive on a particular bad part, these are your outcomes. Or so they can really, they can really break it down for the customer so that, and instill that trust. So I think, you know, looking at it from that perspective, and then when you put it all together and put it forward facing, like, for me, as someone I came with, you know, I came with lots of shop. You know, I've had cars and I've gone to shops, and I've always gotten frustrated to the fact that I take my car to a shop and then I'm like, okay, it's probably nothing big. And then you get a laundry list of things that need to be done. You're like, come on, really? Do I need to have all that done? And then when you go spend time in the shop and you see really what they look at, how they look at it, how they approach automotive repair, how they approach automotive safety, you know, they're that thinking about, they're not thinking about just your vehicle, but they're thinking about the fact that you're driving a vehicle on the road with other people. So there's a.

Chris Jones [00:04:39]:
There's a lot of factors that go into there that the consumer doesn't think about. The consumer sometimes just thinks that, you know, you're just trying to get money out of me. It's like, well, it's not necessarily I'm trying to get money. I'm trying to make sure that, one, you and your family are safe, but two, that you're safe motorists on the road so that you're not causing problems for other motorists.

Jimmy Purdy [00:04:54]:
Right. It's like that stigma, right, in the auto industry. Like, we're all crooks. We're all trying to rip everybody off. And you get that list of stuff, and it's like, you don't understand it's coming from a place of compassion. Right? Like, yeah, I mean, do it if you want to, but I. I put it out there so I don't, you know, I can cover my ass. Like, hey, these are all the things I found.

Jimmy Purdy [00:05:13]:
I don't want you going somewhere else and be like, why don't you tell me that stuff was bad, right? And so it's really difficult because a lot of advisors, especially, they come new into the industry. They don't want to have that conversation. Oh, man. That's all they came in for because they had a cool link, you know, all they need is a water pump. Right? And I love that, that, how do you call it? Connotation, where it's like, well, you don't really need anything because you drove it in. Right? Like, yeah, you know, like, do I really need all that stuff? Like, no, you don't need anything. Like, you drove it here and you can drive it home, but I don't know how much farther than that you're gonna get. Yeah, it's tough, man.

Jimmy Purdy [00:05:50]:
And it's until, like you said, you get more involved with other shop owners that are doing the same thing, more people that are professionals in the industry that are doing the same thing, you start realizing, oh, it's okay. Like, this is what we're doing. We're trying to provide a service. We're not just looking to pad the bottom line. It's a great benefit of that outcome. Right. Of course, then we can buy new tools. We can pay our guys more.

Jimmy Purdy [00:06:15]:
And as long as you have that right mindset, you do the right things with the money that comes from doing the right thing to begin with. Right.

Chris Jones [00:06:22]:
Yeah, it's very similar going to the doctor and getting your labs done, you know, and the doctor comes back and just talks to you about your labs. It's like, yeah, you know, you might need this or that or, you know, and it's kind of similar thing. Yeah, exactly. I feel if I came here, I'm okay. Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:06:38]:
I walked in here like, what are you talking about? What do I need? Yeah. Catching that stuff before it becomes a big problem.

Chris Jones [00:06:43]:
Exactly. It's the exact same thing. It's like, okay, you're pre diabetic, let's just put you on, you know, let's put you on a different diet, blah, blah, blah. Oh, but I don't want to change my diet. Well, if you don't change your diet, this is what happens. Same thing with the car, you know. Well, I don't want to change this now, but if you don't change this now, here's what's going to happen in the next, you know, 3000, 6000 miles.

Jimmy Purdy [00:06:59]:
Yeah. And the correlation between the medical and the automotive seems to be a big one. It's one thing I struggle with because people can kind of fix themselves, cars can't. It's not, you know, and a lot of technicians get into that loop too, like being a transmission rebuilder, you know, I've had a lot of guys come through and they'll put it in and I'll have some weird shift problem. Right. And they'll just keep driving it like it'll go away. Like it's not going to go away.

Chris Jones [00:07:25]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:07:26]:
You know what I mean? Like it's not gonna get any better. Like this is, this is a problem and we got to get back in and fix it because cars aren't people and they won't like heal themselves.

Chris Jones [00:07:34]:
That's true.

Jimmy Purdy [00:07:37]:
It doesn't get better. You know, that noise is going, just gonna get worse. But, you know, a lot of stuff there, the beginning, like the relationship with the advisors and like, and trying to keep that interpersonal relationship and managing employees and there's so much there that to unpack. Right. Like it's such a big part. And that was all like, but then how do we do that, right? That's the thing I struggle with. And I talk to a lot of people that other, they struggle with. How do I get my advisors, my technicians to like have a better relationship? How do I get those answers? Because you ask them, like how many times you run across somebody that you're maybe doing an article for and you ask these questions and they're like, oh, I don't know, that's got to be a common answer, right?

Chris Jones [00:08:25]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:08:25]:
How do you draw that out of them?

Chris Jones [00:08:27]:
It does. It does. It does happen when people aren't always sure how to get the most out of people or not. But I think the shop owner who has or who does, I think those are the ones who are relying on their one on one meetings. They're the ones who prioritize. Those weekly meetings, those daily meetings, those one to ones. They prioritize, like, just even outings, like doing things together as a staff and a team, because I think you get the most out of people when they can not only work together well, but play together well. So they do, like, you know, they'll do the outings, whether they go bowling or axe throwing or something, just finding that way where it's not the shirt, you know, the buttoned up work culture, but it's like, okay, I'll let my hair down a little bit.

Chris Jones [00:09:11]:
We're having a little fun. We're having some drinks, having some wings, throwing some axes, and I laughing and having a good time. And before you know it, okay, you know, the advisor and the text to each other is like, okay, we're co workers, but we're human beings, too here. We both have a job we want to do. We both have families we want to feed. How do we work better together?

Jimmy Purdy [00:09:28]:
Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's what it is, too. Because a lot of the time, you know, it all starts kind of at the top, right? And I hate referring to myself as, like, being at the top, but you get the leadership or the management, and it goes down to the advisor, and it goes to the technician. And, I mean, look at the flow that way is not really it, because it's more of a circle. Right. But just for the example of, like, you know, this example is like, the advisor is pushing the technician in a sense. Right? And this is, like, a problem I see every day in my shop is there's an expectation that the advisor is given to the client and ultimately clients at the top, really, like, they're the ones that pay the bills. So they say, I'm gonna get your car back to you by noon.

Jimmy Purdy [00:10:12]:
01:00. 02:00. That way you can go pick up your kids. So now the advisors got this expectation to deliver, and then they have to translate that to the technician. Hey, you know, you can have this done by noon, and we're done by one. And that's. It's looked upon like. Like an attack.

Jimmy Purdy [00:10:30]:
They feel attacked. Right? Man, I'm doing the best I can. It'll be done when it's done. Like, if I get done sooner, I would. And I hear that so much. It's like this. This weird dichotomy is like, they're, like, fighting each other, but they both win if that vehicle is delivered, fixed, you know, by that timeline. You know what I mean? It's like, no one's.

Jimmy Purdy [00:10:51]:
No, like, this is not an attack on you, man. The advisor is just trying to set an expectation so you guys can both win together. Like, why don't you make it a game? Like, yeah, man, let's do this. Let's get this thing done. Let's get this. Crush it, right? But instead, it's looked upon like, you can't tell me what to do. You know, the ego comes in, right? And it's like, well, if I get it done sooner, of course I would. You know, you get this attitude, and then the advisor takes that attitude and then breeds that back to the customer, and they're like, you know, he's trying his best, and it's like the whole process is just thrown out the window because of just that weird, you know, dichotomy and building a better relationship where they're more of a.

Jimmy Purdy [00:11:29]:
More friends, right. In a sense. And they can see it as a game and a team effort. Man. That is so. It's easy to sit here and talk about it, but, man, it is so difficult to make that a thing. But the meetings, and I think one thing I was making a mistake was doing the meetings is like a. Like a, like a prize or like, hey, we met.

Jimmy Purdy [00:11:51]:
We met our sales goal. Let's all go out together. And I think that's a loss. I think that's the wrong way to do it. I think you just gotta do it out of repetition. Hey, every month we're going out, you know, whether we win or lose, we're going out together, and we're gonna go do something fun. And instead of doing it as, like, a sales goal, you know, party or whatever you wanna call it, it's like, let's just all go out no matter what, and just keep building that culture, you know? What's something that you've noticed? I mean, you've probably talked to a lot of. A lot of shop owners.

Jimmy Purdy [00:12:22]:
Is there a certain pattern or something that you see that you can easily recognize? Man, this guy is definitely successful without even knowing a shop.

Chris Jones [00:12:31]:
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Trust, trust. They trust their people 100%. Like, they're, you know, they'll. They trust the people they hire. I think that's the number one thing. Like when a shop owner is willing to turn the reins over, let things go and say, oh, yeah, my shop manager is taking care of this, or, you know, my advisors are taking care of that, or my technicians, they have a full trust in the people that they hire. I think that's the number one thing where they don't worry about things falling through the cracks.

Chris Jones [00:12:59]:
They don't worry about processes breaking because they've built the processes. The process has been built. They've been tested, they're tried and true, and they work. And so they're able to step out and say, yeah, the shop can run whether I'm in the shop or not.

Jimmy Purdy [00:13:13]:
Yeah, that's a tough place to get to.

Chris Jones [00:13:15]:
It is. It's a very hard place. It is a hard place. And I think the hardest part is that when building a business, like, you know, oftentimes, you know, for people who are bootstrapping it, it's just about getting the doors open. Right. It's about twisting the lock, getting the doors open, opening the bays, and just starting work and making that money. Because it's an investment. It's an investment to be a business owner.

Chris Jones [00:13:36]:
So you just start with what, you know, your biggest strength most of the time you're coming into it as a technician is fixing cars. What do you want to do? You want to fix cars, make money, build the business that way. And, you know, the. I mean, the best way, of course, always is to start with a plan, build your processes, have everything kind of laid out. But it's not. It's not always easy. It's not always the way that you can do it, you know, because maybe your circumstances dictate the fact that you can't do it because maybe you left a shop, you know, on some sort of terms, you know, maybe you didn't like the way shop was running, so you decided, hey, I can do it myself. I can do better on my own.

Chris Jones [00:14:13]:
You go out on your own and you don't have the time to put the processes together.

Jimmy Purdy [00:14:18]:
It's not as good as you thought it was going to be.

Chris Jones [00:14:20]:
Yeah, it's a little harder than you thought because there's a lot more to running a business than making money. Making money is part of it. It's almost a byproduct of running a good business.

Jimmy Purdy [00:14:31]:
Absolutely, man, you start learning that very quickly.

Chris Jones [00:14:36]:
Yeah, you learn that pretty fast. And I think that's the challenge, is having to go back and do year one processes. When you're three or four years in and say, okay, I'm three or four years into the shop. We're making some money. Now I've got to go back and put these processes in place. What does hiring need to look like? What does onboarding need to look like? What does the flow of the service desk and the customer journey need to look like? What do our relationships need to look like? Interpersonal, and then within the space of customers, etcetera. So you got to go back and do those year one processes and put those all under you. And that's why you see a lot of, you know, that's what a lot of coaching companies end up doing in the business is they catch shops in that place where they've been in business for a while, and they're realizing, oh, I'm making money.

Chris Jones [00:15:21]:
But things aren't moving forward. I've kind of got that place of stagnation, and that place of stagnation always hits when you hit the top of your processes.

Jimmy Purdy [00:15:31]:
Man. Nailed that one for sure. That's like, hit home for that one. Yeah, the going backwards thing, mandy, that's exactly what it feels like, too, even though it's not like, yeah, you know, it's like the analogy of shooting a bow and arrow. Like, you gotta pull the bow back, aim, and then you can release, and you propel forward. Right?

Chris Jones [00:15:56]:
Yeah. It's the same thing as step back.

Jimmy Purdy [00:15:58]:
It's just taken. It's just taken that kind of view. Like, hold on a second. I missed a few things along the way.

Chris Jones [00:16:04]:
It's like a natural progression to shop. It's not like, you know, if you've ever messed with, like, the stock market. Me and my friend, we used to, like, flip stocks for fun, you know, and, and, like, you watch the stock market just go up and go up, and it's like this thing shot up for no reason at all, and we can't figure out why. And you realized, well, after a while, it's going to have to come back down and fill that entire gap that it shot up. And it's the same thing. You know, you're with a business, the business will shoot up, make money, do well, and it can go at a meteoric rate and go really fast and like, wow, I'm really successful. I'm doing super well. My business is going great.

Chris Jones [00:16:33]:
But then you just got to come back and fill all that gap at some point, you got to fill out all that gap was processed with right people, right. Hiring, etcetera, marketing. So you have to go back and fill that gap, and then now you can now, you got back to your correct valuation as a shop where you can say, I'm doing well all the way across the board. There's no. No holes in the bucket.

Jimmy Purdy [00:16:54]:
That's an awesome way of looking at it, because it is, too. And that's the, that's the part that everyone gets stuck at. And would you put a timeline on that? What do you, what do you see with businesses as far as that kind of timeline, where they get to a point? Have you, have you been able to correlate with something like that? Like a five year or six year span, and all of a sudden, they kind of hit their ceiling and they can't realize why they can't break through, and you got to go back and do.

Chris Jones [00:17:17]:
I think it's individual to the owner, because each, each individual owner has his own structure, his own organization style, his own way of doing business, and so. Or her. And then once they get to that point where they've done everything to the best of their individual ability, that's when they start to stagnate, because it's like, you don't know what you don't know. You know, that the analogy that we always use, you don't know what you don't know. You finally get to that point where, okay, why aren't things going up anymore? And it's like, well, it's because you gotta put the foundation under it now.

Jimmy Purdy [00:17:48]:
Yeah. It's kind of like a house of cards, right?

Chris Jones [00:17:51]:
In a sense, yeah, in a sense. It's just that the. Just needs. The foundation needs to be supported. So you have to cut, like you say, you have to go. Go backwards to go forward, essentially go back and say, okay, well, are the processes broken? Or where the, where do the process need to be strengthened? Or where are there processes that we've never had processes and get those. Get those aligned.

Jimmy Purdy [00:18:10]:
And it's unfortunate to, you know, the ego comes in, but a lot of the time, it's, um. They just don't want to go back. Right. And that, that part just, I don't want to go back, and I don't want to do that kinds of stuff. And look how successful I am. And it. And it takes a huge blow or something extremely stressful or, like, a huge employee turnover or, like, they just get to the point where it's like, they're tapping out. Now, can you help me? You know, and you run across that a lot.

Jimmy Purdy [00:18:45]:
Like, that's gotta be a thing. Cause that's where I got to. Right. And it just seems like everyone, they get to their breaking point. Right. Like, I can't take the stress anymore. And everybody along the way has kind of said what you said. I, hey, man, go back and do some processes, you know, get some procedures.

Jimmy Purdy [00:19:01]:
I don't need to do that. I'm not wasting my time on that. I don't need to do that. All I need to worry about is cash flow, car count. That's all I need to worry about. And then they get to the breaking point, and it's like I'm ready to close the doors, and it's like, it's so simple, you know?

Chris Jones [00:19:17]:
Yeah. And I think that's one of the things that. Because you always hear, you know, and I'm not discounting, because I don't know as I'm not a shop owner, but you always hear, I'm too busy, too. Just the idea of being busy, you know, having too much to do. And it's like, as a business owner, man, you have to be a perpetual learner. You just have to be constantly learning stuff. Constantly learning stuff, constantly learning stuff. Whether it's you going to classes a lot, whether you're reading books, listening to podcasts.

Chris Jones [00:19:44]:
You got. You got to continue, like, be thinking about what's next for the business. You know, what's next? What's next? Because the here and now is the here and now. I mean, if it's running, it's running, but it's like, okay, well, how do I keep it running? How do I sustain it for the next year, the next two, the next five? And so continuing to just teach yourself and learn, I think that's the benefit of going to conferences, you know, making that time. Yeah, it's, you know, you may have to make some adjustments for that, or, you know, of course, you know, there's. There's financial ramifications of shutting down the shop and going to a conference, but asking yourself, okay, can we afford not to shut down the shop for a day? One day's worth of the shop being shut down, maybe. I mean, hypothetically, let's say it's a shut the shop down for a day. I know it's much more than that, but say it's a $1,000.

Chris Jones [00:20:30]:
Is it? Is it worth the $1,000? If you're reinforcing knowledge into your people and they're learning new skills and they're getting fired up about what they're learning, and they're bringing that back to the shop and getting other people excited, now all of a sudden, everyone is like, they're energized again. They're ready to do great work again. I think that's the. I've always seen that at conferences, and you walk around a conference and you meet people, you talk to them, and just. They're so energized because they want to learn, they want to grow, they want their careers to be successful, and they oftentimes love where they're at. It's like, if you've got all those things where people are just that excited, you kind of have to feed the machine.

Jimmy Purdy [00:21:09]:
That's like the magic, right? Yeah, almost like that's. Everyone's looking for the secret sauce or, like, kind of like the silver bullet or the one. The one, like, how do I fix it? Right? What's the answer? Right? And there's a lot. But there's. There's a secret thing that you were just talking about that no one really talks about, because you can't quantify it. You can't. Like, you can't write it down. Like, what is that? What is that magic? Like, how does that help me? How much better are my people going to be? Like, what.

Jimmy Purdy [00:21:38]:
What does that look like on the backside? It's like, it doesn't look like anything other than everyone's motivated and everyone's bought into the process, and you can't put a number on that. You can't justify that.

Chris Jones [00:21:50]:
No, no. And the thing is, like, you don't know the impact it has when you invest in people. I was a stx back in April, and I talked to a guy who had been a technician for 29 years, and he worked at a small shop most of the time. And he said he had recently, a couple of years, had moved into another shop, and this is his first time going to a conference. And he said, yeah, in 29 years of being a tech, I'd never been to a conference. I've never had anybody invest in my education. And he said, this is the most amazing gift that someone's ever given me as a shop owner.

Jimmy Purdy [00:22:27]:
Wow. It's amazing. And it. It's kind of a new age now, though. I feel like a lot of that old, you know, the old kind of ways.

Chris Jones [00:22:36]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:22:36]:
Get to work, and you put your head down and you grind away, and, you know, you stay in your little pocket. I just don't think that's. That's gonna work anymore.

Chris Jones [00:22:43]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:22:44]:
And that's how a lot of us race. As I was raised in a shop, and it's so difficult to. Because you want to use your past experience. You raised right, as in your. In your parents instill values in you and you use those values as, as you go through life, then you want to raise your kids the same way. And, I mean, it's the same thing, I guess, with raising kids in this day and age, too. Like, you, you gotta go outside of your comfort zone a lot. And it's one thing I've noticed, like, everything that I learned growing up in a shop or, you know, learning in a shop, it's like out the window.

Jimmy Purdy [00:23:15]:
I gotta learn all new stuff. And unless I'm around all the other people in the industry that are doing it differently, how am I supposed to know anything different, you know? Like, how come this isn't working? It worked for me, you know, this is what my boss used to tell me. How come no one's responding the way I did? It's like, because it's different now. There's different ways of doing it.

Chris Jones [00:23:35]:
Yeah. And there's no shame in unlearned, relearn, you know, there's no shame in saying, okay, what I've done in the past doesn't work. Either my skills or my leadership or, however, is antiquated, does not work today. There's nothing wrong with saying, okay, well, how do I need to lead for tomorrow, you know? Cause invariably your people will teach you that. You know, they teach you how to lead because it's like you're governing people, so it's more about them than it is about you. Your leadership style should be more adaptive to the people that are around who you are around most of the time.

Jimmy Purdy [00:24:08]:
Yeah, if you're willing to listen.

Chris Jones [00:24:09]:
That's true. Yeah, if you're willing to listen.

Jimmy Purdy [00:24:12]:
But then sometimes you listen and they don't tell you what they're actually going on either. So it's like, well, yeah, and it.

Chris Jones [00:24:17]:
Doesn'T, it doesn't mean that you're easily influenced, that you're going to do everything. You know, you're going to take every suggestion, but you could acknowledge that you heard somebody and say, yeah, that's a, that's a good suggestion. I'm not sure if we'll be able to act upon that, but I continue to feed me more suggestions. I like hearing that. I'm an idea guy. Let me hear it.

Jimmy Purdy [00:24:33]:
Yeah, you know, I want to circle back to, like, fill in the gaps there because I think that's really, really impactful. That's like, that's huge for a lot that are, that are kind of good and everyone wants take that step back. But what are ways that you've seen other shop owners kind of take that process and get that building first. Right. Because at first, the first only thing, like you, like you said, is just getting cars. We need cash flow.

Chris Jones [00:24:58]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:24:58]:
I don't have time to write processes. I don't have time for all that stuff. I can't fire these people that aren't being productive because then I don't have anybody like, so they're willing to lower their standards and just to keep the cash flow coming in instead of just saying, no, my standards here, I'm not lowering it to here. Right. And so I'm going to build processes that put my standards up here. I'm not going to allow these people in my business unless they're willing to meet that. And if I'm standing here by myself not making any money, I'm going to be okay. That's the scariest thing in the world for me to think about.

Jimmy Purdy [00:25:29]:
I'd rather just have a warm body in here that at least can get a car fixed a day so I can at least appease one client. Is that something, a pattern that you've seen or anything you can insight on that?

Chris Jones [00:25:42]:
Yeah, that does happen. I think you, because I think when you start thinking about labor shortages, tech shortages, and you constantly hear about that, it can put that scarcity into your mind that if I let this tech go, there's no one, no, there's possibly nobody who's going to walk through the door and want to work. Because you hear that, too. You hear, well, these, we have a generation of people who don't want to work. So you start hearing all these negative things around you all the time. Labor shortage, people don't want to work. There's nobody wants to do automotive. And so all of a sudden, your scope starts to narrow, your tunnel vision, and you think, I've got to put up with whatever.

Chris Jones [00:26:17]:
I've got to just deal with it. And that's not true. It's not true at all. You don't have to deal with, there are people who do want to work. It does take time to find people to hire the right people. I mean, sometimes you have to go through a lot of interviews to find that right person, but, you know, the right people are attracted to the right environment. So you also have to look at, is my environment attractive? Is this a place where somebody wants to come and put down some roots and be a tech for me or be an advisor for me for the long haul? And that, those are, those are questions you have to honestly ask yourself, am I creating an environment where people will value working here, too. I've seen it happen a couple of ways.

Chris Jones [00:26:59]:
There's, we did a story a couple of years ago, and I don't, the name of the shop owner escapes me, and this is kind of the moderate example, but he's in New Jersey. But what he did was he was just, wasn't governing his shop by KPI's at all. He was just like, it was just all Willy nilly, like, just, okay, we're making money, we got car count, blah, blah. And then he realized, you know, he wasn't making as much money as he could. Like, he just realized. He came to the realization that, this can't be right. Like, yeah, I'm making money, I've got the car count, but why am I not more successful? So he got with a coach, sat down, looked over his p and ls, looked at his numbers, and started governing the shop by data and shot up, you know, started hitting his goals and going beyond that because he started looking at the data and governing by data and not governing by, you know, what he sees from his eyes or how he felt, and it changed the entire shop. And he, he's, he's been able to get himself out of his shop, so he's been able to, he took that time and was able to do everything right by data, teach his team how to do it by data, and then pull himself out of his shop, which was like, you know, the ultimate goal for him.

Chris Jones [00:28:03]:
And so that's one example, an extreme example is, was with Tim Swinkowski, and he's in Plymouth, Minnesota, with stellar, stellar auto works. But, you know, he got to a point where he realized his leadership was horrible. You know, he said I was a terrible leader. And he let his team go. He let everybody go and start doing it himself right around Covid time. He just let everybody go and just said, okay, this is an opportunity for me just to rebuild the entire thing from the ground up. So he was saying he was turning wrenches by himself for a while, had a part timer coming and helping him, and he's since been able to rebuild his team, rebuild everything. Kind of come up with that whole gap refill we talked about, like, okay, I'm going to create processes for everything now.

Chris Jones [00:28:46]:
Processes for hiring the right people, processes for how we do things, processes for how we do customer service. Have somebody here dedicated just to that. And I'm going to hire people like, you know, foreman's people just to govern every aspect of the business so that I don't have to do it all myself. And since then, he's become very successful with his shop. So those are two examples. But it all goes back to the leader of the shop admitting that they, okay, this is on me, taking personal responsibility for it and saying, okay, I have not been able to get the team, get my people where I said that I could do it. Now I've got to look within myself and figure out how to do that.

Jimmy Purdy [00:29:24]:
Oh, man. Yeah, absolutely. The inwards look and then the accountability. Right? Because you have all the processes in the world. You can write everything down, you know, and then you have these one on one meetings or these group team meetings, and you tell everyone. Then you're like, okay, everyone knows. Now we're good. No, you can't just tell someone one thing, right? Like, when's the last time you said one thing to anybody and they just took it in and that was it, right? They.

Jimmy Purdy [00:29:50]:
So reinforcing and having the accountability. Right? Like, this is our standard. And then when something goes outside of those lines, stopping for a minute and saying, hey, so remember we talked, is this something that's in the scope of what we talked about? Yeah. Or is this nothing? Right. Like, so, so if we're, if we're, if we're a million dollar facility, do you think this, what you're doing right now is in that spectrum of being a million dollar facility, is that something that you would walk into another shop that's doing? Right, like, where's the accountability line? And constantly being able to, like, reinforce that over and over and over, it's a very hard thing for me to do, but it's something that has to be done. And I think you have that breaking point, like you said, with him, and I'm gonna fire everybody and start new. I don't know if you need to do that necessarily, but it's like. But, you know, at that point in time, if you're gonna spend all the time with the systems and processes, you know, like, you need to constantly reinforce that.

Jimmy Purdy [00:30:46]:
Otherwise, they're never gonna, like, you can't just tell them one time and expect it to work. I thought that's how it worked for sure for a long time.

Chris Jones [00:30:54]:
Yeah. I mean, whatever doesn't work for kids, doesn't work for anybody. You know, with children, you have to re constantly reinforcing, reinforcing. And I think, and I think it's the same with people. It's like, I think that's the, the beauty of, like, read backs, you know, when you tell someone something. All right, read it back to me. You know, hey, art, make sure. We both understand what we're, you know, what we're coming from, so we're both on the same page.

Jimmy Purdy [00:31:18]:
Yeah. That's a good way to do it, too. You know, those are like those little things that you don't really think about. Right. Because you're so bought in as the owner. I'm already bought into the process. I got it, you know, got a coach. We talk.

Jimmy Purdy [00:31:30]:
We talk for an hour over and over and over. This. This is like, I'm. I'm ready to go. I'm spending all this money. Like, I'm bought into the process, you know? And then I expect me just one time verbalize it, and everyone's like, got it, boss. I'm on it. Like.

Jimmy Purdy [00:31:45]:
And that level of buy in is just not there. And it's a tough thing to try to explain that. Right. Because I'm not a coach, you know? And so someone has a much better way of explaining it to me than I ever will be able to regurgitate it.

Chris Jones [00:32:02]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:32:03]:
So I can't. I can't get them to buy in. I got to be a salesman, and I can't do it.

Chris Jones [00:32:07]:
Yeah. It's. It's, you know, it's something you see on sports teams, you know, where the coach has the philosophy. He knows where he wants to take the team, and it's always finding who's the first person I can get, who's who? Who is the person I can influence to really influence the rest of the team. And I think you got to find that one person who can, who really is bought into it to be that influence on the team. I see it. Like, my son, he's starting playing. He started playing football this year, first year playing football middle school.

Chris Jones [00:32:36]:
And so, you know, he's out there, and they're doing drills. Like the teams all together, they're doing drills. And so the snap count is two. So the coach is like, all right, we go on two, and they're all lined up across the field just practicing the snap count. And so the coach will say, hut. And if someone jumps off sides, he backs it up. So now you're going to run. Now we're going from.

Chris Jones [00:32:55]:
You're running ten yards, you're running 20 now. And every time somebody jumps off sides, he has ten more yards to their sprint, and he keeps doing it and doing it. And eventually what you started to hear is the kids started coaching each other. Stop jumping off sides. Stop jumping. You know, hey, guys, stop jumping. It's on two. And then they got to the point where they all just started, you know, they coached each other, and before, you know, before they had practice, you know, they weren't having to run 90 yards.

Chris Jones [00:33:21]:
They figured it out, worked with each other, made sure that each other checked each other down before they dropped into their stances, and they didn't jump until the coach said, hut, hut. It wasn't just the hutt. And so no one was jumping offsides. And it's the same thing, I think, when building a culture is that, you know, if you find that person on the team that just checks everybody. Hey, guys. No, this is our standard. Here's how we're going to do it. And it becomes an infectious thing where the next person grabs it and the next person grabs it.

Jimmy Purdy [00:33:47]:
Yeah. Holding each other accountable.

Chris Jones [00:33:48]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:33:49]:
You know, that's. You can't. One person can't hold everyone accountable. I think that's one thing I'm beginning to realize.

Chris Jones [00:33:56]:
Yeah. It's a team effort. You just find those people who really are bought in, who really love the work they do and who really want to ultimately see the business succeed, want to do good for the community.

Jimmy Purdy [00:34:07]:
Yeah. It reminds me of an experiment, and I don't know if you heard about that one, but the. Was it with. It was with, like, chimpanzees or something, some sort of animal test where they. They impacted a certain behavior. Right on one particular one, and then they removed him, and then that behavior translated, and then they did that three or four times, and. And before they knew it, like, it was every. Like that behavior continued in that group pod, even without that first initial one there.

Jimmy Purdy [00:34:42]:
So they had no idea why they were doing it. And I can't remember exactly what the.

Chris Jones [00:34:46]:
I know you're talking about. Yeah, I do. I've heard that one. Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:34:49]:
And it's like, it was like they got a reward, and then they removed the reward, and then they removed the original, you know, and then it was like, it just can continue. That pattern kept continuing, and, like, they didn't even know why they were doing it.

Chris Jones [00:35:02]:
Yeah. They took. They took all the control animals out, and it was all the variable, and then. Yeah. They were following that entire model. And like you said. Yeah. They hadn't even been impacted by the experiments at all.

Jimmy Purdy [00:35:12]:
Right. And it was like the patterns continued. Yeah, yeah. And it's not like a primate thing. Like, not like we have a bunch of, you know, animals out in the shop, but it's the same thing. We're all like, we all want to do the right thing for the right reasons, and I miss that a lot, too. I feel like if I'm, if I'm too strict or if I say something did to discipline them, they're just gonna leave. Right? Like, we all, we're all people pleasers.

Chris Jones [00:35:35]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:35:36]:
Especially in the automotive industry, as you, you probably noticed, too. Like, even though we got this weird, bad stigma in the auto industry that we're gonna rip people off. Like, we just want to please people. We want to make them happy. We want to fix their cars, you know? And we do that with our people, too. We just, if they make a mistake, you're like, well, I've made that mistake, too. It's okay. Instead of, like, setting the standard, like, hey, this is not acceptable.

Jimmy Purdy [00:35:58]:
How do we not make that happen again? That's tough, right? And, like, to hold someone accountable like that and be, and come from a place of fear, and you think they're just gonna leave. Like, if you discipline someone, you're just gonna leave. And like that team analogy, you said, everyone's there on that team because they want to be there. Like, they want to play football. So you make them hold each other accountable. They're like, hey, man, you're making my, you're making this harder for me, and I want to have a good time, and I think we lose that because it's work, you know, if that makes sense. Like, you lose that thing of, like, hey, we all want to be here and do this thing. Like, we want to fix cars, and if we don't, then they should probably leave anyway.

Jimmy Purdy [00:36:37]:
Like, if you're not, if your heart's not in this, then you need, you need to go.

Chris Jones [00:36:42]:
Yeah, no, that's very true. And I think, you know, when it comes to that, like, it's. You have to be very, very tactful. Yeah. In this day and age, when you're trying to correct the behavior they can, a lot of times, you just kind of have to disguise it as teaching. Hey, I noticed that this happened yesterday. Do you want me to show you the right way to do that or wouldn't want me to help you understand, whatever it may be? Because I think that's, you got to figure out a way, because we've gone a long way from that place of just do as I say, here's what you did wrong, blah, blah, blah. And it's just coming down on people.

Chris Jones [00:37:14]:
We've kind of gone away from that, that day of, like, you know, the.

Jimmy Purdy [00:37:17]:
Tough, hard coaching, the way you and I were raised.

Chris Jones [00:37:20]:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we've got away from that, and it's more it's more of really, like, you know, we've got a. You gotta mix it in with, like, they talk about, like, the praise sandwich. Okay. Hey, man, you've done a great job on these cars, man. I did notice yesterday that this happened. You know, definitely. Please pay more careful attention to that.

Chris Jones [00:37:34]:
Cause we know we're out to do our best possible job for our customers. You know, here's the. Here's our mission, our mantra right here on the board. Let's try to live up to that. And, uh, if you have any questions, man, let me know.

Jimmy Purdy [00:37:45]:
I love that. And. And that little part there of the mission is reinforcing why. And I think that's missed a lot, too, because it comes from a place of emotion, so you're just trying to go through the movements. Like, hey, I like you being here, and thank you for showing up on time every day, even though that's a given. Right? Like, yeah, like, I don't want to praise him for that because, like, yeah, you're supposed to show for it, but just that little compliment and then saying, hey, but this is what you did wrong, so don't do that again. But then using that opportunity to say, and this is why it was wrong, because it leads to a, b, and c, because this is the culture, because this is what we want to experience, we want to give to our clients. And then does that make sense? Right? So let's try to find a way to not let that happen again.

Jimmy Purdy [00:38:29]:
And it's really difficult in the heat of the moment, in the middle of the day, right, when there's, like, a thousand things going on to, like, stop and go have that conversation and then, like, break it down like a child to them. Man, this is a grown ass adult. What am I breaking it down like this for? But it's so true, though. Like, you have to do that. And it's like, I'm paying him, you know, $100,000 a year, and I got to talk to him like a child. He's got three kids of his own. What are you talking about? It's like. Well, that's just what it is, you know?

Chris Jones [00:38:57]:
Yeah. Because, I mean, you're holding. You're holding them accountable to the standard. Not your. Not you, right. You're holding accountable. This is the standard that we set. So I'm holding you accountable to the standard that we all have.

Chris Jones [00:39:05]:
It's not about me, the shop owner. I'm not. And it's something that you teach your children. It's like, I'm not upset at you. I'm upset at the behavior. You're a great kid, and I love you. I just don't like that behavior, and I want to make sure we correct that behavior. Yeah.

Chris Jones [00:39:20]:
Except being able to separate me. You're a phenomenal worker, man. I love. I love having you here. So it's not you. It's just. We made a mistake here. We got to fix that.

Jimmy Purdy [00:39:30]:
Yeah, that's a. That's a good one. Because that's. That's the problem there. Right.

Chris Jones [00:39:34]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:39:35]:
Trying to separate those two. Because you separate in your own mind, but you're not, like, verbalize.

Chris Jones [00:39:40]:
Yeah. And you have to be able to verbalize that because people do internalize stuff quickly. I mean, we're. Our minds can be our worst enemy, you know?

Jimmy Purdy [00:39:48]:
I think they are.

Chris Jones [00:39:52]:
Our minds can really just betray us in the worst possible ways because it's like, you know, you're like. You're thinking, oh, God, the shop owner is mad at me and he's upset with it. It's like, no, he's not upset with you. It's just. It's. He just wants the problem solved and he wants you to take care of it. Yeah, it's nothing personal. Nothing personal at all.

Jimmy Purdy [00:40:07]:
Yeah, it's like, it's not. It's not personal. It's business, and.

Chris Jones [00:40:10]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:40:10]:
And that gets. I think it gets thrown around too loosely. I think that's. That's one of those things that gets thrown around. And without having a conversation like this or, like, truly breaking that down, you don't quite understand what that means. And it's just like this loose term that's thrown out there. Like. What do you mean? Of course it's personal.

Jimmy Purdy [00:40:27]:
I'm here 10 hours a day. I'm here more than I'm at home. Right. Like, everything that happens in this shop is personal. So I think it. Yeah, it's tough because there's so much more to that. That mantra then, like, it's not personal, it's business. Right.

Jimmy Purdy [00:40:42]:
Because it is. It's like, this is my livelihood. This is, you know, the technicians that work here, it's their livelihood. It's what they love to do. They're passionate about it. They love doing it. And for someone to come up and say, hey, you're not doing it right. They do take it very personal, and it's, like, impossible to separate those two and say, no, it's just business, man.

Jimmy Purdy [00:41:01]:
No, it's not just business. It's very personal to me. This is what supports my wife and my kids, and I love doing it. And I want to make sure these cars are safe for the community. And so it becomes. It becomes a very personal thing. I think it needs to be in a sense, you know? So I don't know how to break that down to make that make sense to anybody. They say it's not personal, it's business.

Jimmy Purdy [00:41:23]:
It's like, oh, that's a tough one to just throw out there, you know?

Chris Jones [00:41:27]:
Yeah. But I think that that onus is on the technician because, you know, that's. It's a reflection of your work ethic, you know? Do you want to be the best technician you can be?

Jimmy Purdy [00:41:35]:
You.

Chris Jones [00:41:35]:
That's what you told me, right? You told me when I hired you that you're the best. You want to be the best you can be. You want to grow, you want to learn. This is a teaching moment we're in right now. You know, it's nothing. So take it per. Yeah, do take it personally. So.

Chris Jones [00:41:45]:
Okay, well, how can I improve this? How can I be better the next time I see x, y, and z situation show up? So, yeah, I think you can take it personally in that. In that regard where you're thinking of it as a way of, how is this going to make me a better tech now that I've got this. This constructive criticism from my boss as opposed to seeing it? And I think some of that is that from a leadership standpoint, as a shop leader, shop owner, you've got to be, like the encourager in chief. You know, you've got to be that guy who's visible, who's, you know, on any given day, just dropping. Dropping comments on. Dropping positive comments on people. You got to build that bank account with people. So you're talking to them, you say, man, great job on that accurate day, man.

Chris Jones [00:42:26]:
Or, hey, man, I saw you in there, man, you would. You were going at it today, man, great job. I appreciate having you here just every day, just reminding people that they're valuable to you, they're valuable to the team, and they're valuable to the community because they're serving this, they're serving our community, and you're keeping people safe. So I think just constantly just reinforcing and reminding people of that, because then when you do say something, you know, when you do have to have that hard talk, you've built so much equity, you know, in those compliments, you've built so much equity and praise and helping that person feel worthy of being there, that it just. It's a drop in the bucket at that point.

Jimmy Purdy [00:43:01]:
As opposed the jocko Williams thing, huh?

Chris Jones [00:43:04]:
As opposed to the opposite end, where it's like, okay, if I. If you're not a visible leader and I don't see you very often, and I only see you when I make mistakes, I will. That's something I probably will take a lot more personally. I'll be more deject. I'll be more dejected by that because I said I'm thinking, okay? You're only. You only come around when I make mistakes. Whenever I see you in the shop, I'm thinking, I made a mistake. Somebody around me made a mistake, and you're only here to correct us.

Jimmy Purdy [00:43:26]:
Yeah, I love that analogy. Is that the Jocko Williams thing when you're. When you're trying to build that bank?

Chris Jones [00:43:34]:
Build the bank? No, that one actually comes from. What's his name? The guy from. It's Gary. The guy from five love languages. That's where that one comes from.

Jimmy Purdy [00:43:44]:
Okay.

Chris Jones [00:43:45]:
Yeah. Gary Chapman. Gary Chapman. Five love languages, man. We're just building that. Yeah. Just building that love bank.

Jimmy Purdy [00:43:51]:
Oh, that's a different way. Yeah, I know. Jocko Williams has one where he talks about building that bank of, you know, extreme leadership and walking around and constantly trying to build that bank up. So then when you have something negative, you're taking a little bit out, then you add back to it. Right. And constantly like that. That battle of, like, making sure that the bank is never empty.

Chris Jones [00:44:11]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:44:12]:
So you want to make sure you got a good account going on there so you can give them that positive reinforcement or that correction takes a little bit out of the bank. Then you start building it back up and you make sure you never do too many negatives because then the bank's going to go to zero. I don't know if you've seen the masterclass from Jocko. No, I haven't seen exactly about what you just said. That's. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chris Jones [00:44:36]:
Cuz what do they say? It takes, like, for every. For every negative, you need to counteract that with, like, four positives, right?

Jimmy Purdy [00:44:42]:
Yeah.

Chris Jones [00:44:42]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:44:43]:
You don't want it. You don't want to take a lot of withdrawals because there's. There's fees that come with the withdraws, but you can add it. You can add all the deposits you want, but every time you take the withdrawal, then. Then you get a fee attached to that. So it's. Yeah, it's offset, I guess you could say. Yeah, one of the things, too, is like, I didn't know this is what it was gonna be.

Jimmy Purdy [00:45:01]:
Right? Like, as a technician turned shop owner, you're like, I'll just fix cars. I'll hire some people that have the same mindset as mean, we're just gonna fix cars. We're gonna barbecue on Friday. We're gonna make a ton of money. Everyone's gonna be happy, you know? And, like, the thought of, like, this is ownership. Like. Like, the conversation we're having, that is what being the leader is. Being the owner of the shop is.

Jimmy Purdy [00:45:23]:
And I think that's what's missed. And, like, going back to your gap analogy, I think that's where that gap comes in, because you just don't realize or you don't want to do that. Right? Like, what? This isn't, like, what I signed up for. I thought we were all just gonna have a good time and. And then we wouldn't have to deal with my boss anymore. Right? Like, I left the shop because it was like he was always correcting me and always saying things I didn't want to hear, and I just wanted to put my head down a fixed car, so I opened a shop so I could hire more people. We can all just get these cars fixed. And now I've become the person that I was trying to get away from.

Chris Jones [00:45:58]:
That thing they always say, don't become. You become the person that you hate, you know?

Jimmy Purdy [00:46:02]:
Yeah. You become your parents. Yeah. You become your dad. Like, what is going on here? This is not why I signed up to do this stuff. And you just slowly evolve, and you realize all, well, okay, so this is wrong. So I need to do this now and then, okay, this is going right, so I got to do this. And then all these pieces start coming together, and you look yourself in the mirror, and you're like, huh? I've become exactly who I get away from.

Chris Jones [00:46:24]:
It is.

Jimmy Purdy [00:46:25]:
I get it now. Can I just go back to my job now? Because now I understand, and I'd rather just go do that now because I kind of have to deal with all this stuff. Just a crazy evolution in the cycle. And that cycle, too, is, like, talking about, like, the turnover and that kind of stuff. And I feel like, without having your high standards, I don't want to go, like, we're way back here, but, like, the standards of the shop and keeping the wrong people on staff might be the reason why you're not getting the right people in. You know what I mean? And I. One thing I've noticed from successful people, especially multi shop owners, is that's the. That's the construct.

Jimmy Purdy [00:47:04]:
It's like, I am not allowing them in my shop. I'd rather have nobody. And it's like, what? Well, then what are you gonna do? Like, well, I'll just wait. If I go a week, you know, a week, two weeks, whatever. Whatever happens, happens. But I'm not allowing someone in my shop that's not to my standards. I'm not allowing that to happen. And they just.

Jimmy Purdy [00:47:21]:
And it's. And it seems so cutthroat, right? Like, what do you mean? Like, you're not even gonna give someone a chance? Like, no. And then before you know it, they build this foundation, they build this shop, and they're super successful, you know? And you almost got to wonder, like, well, if. If I just allow anybody in, that's gonna not attract the people I want in. Does that make sense? Like, so by allowing that in there and just trying to get by, like, and you think you're doing the right thing because you have money coming to the bank and you're getting cars fixed, for the most part, it's like you're not creating an attractive environment for the right people, and you're not allowing yourself to build those processes that you need. And that's a very scary thing to think about. But it's almost like that's one thing I've noticed. I don't know if you've kind of noticed the same pattern, but I've noticed that.

Chris Jones [00:48:10]:
Yeah. I mean, you have to ask yourself, you know, what cost more? Not having enough talent in the shop or having the wrong talent in the shop, you know?

Jimmy Purdy [00:48:19]:
Yeah.

Chris Jones [00:48:20]:
Because, I mean, the wrong. The wrong talent can be detrimental to the business. You know, the entire business. You know, you get the wrong person with the wrong attitude. You know, they chase people away, leave a bad taste in people's mouths. People don't want to come to work, or they're not excited about coming to work because they don't want to work with a particular person, versus just. Okay, we've got a great, harmonious shop where one man, you know, one man, one woman short, you know, can we make it work? And, you know, it's like anything else, you know, you overcompensate. You know, like, if you break your arm, your rest of your body over compensates, your left side starts to overcompensate for what the right can't do for a while until the right gets healthy.

Jimmy Purdy [00:48:56]:
And that's subconscious, too.

Chris Jones [00:48:59]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:48:59]:
And on that point, it's like people, they won't tell you that. No one's gonna tell you that. You know, I mean, how rare. Yeah. How rare is it? Someone will say, hey, man, I'm not, like, having a super good time here because, you know, David over there is. It doesn't have the right attitude. You know what I mean? They're just not going to tell you that. They're just going to leave.

Chris Jones [00:49:19]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:49:20]:
And all of a sudden, you're constantly getting these people in and out of the door, right? This huge turnover. David's. David's your number one. Like, David's always great to me. Like, shows up. He does. Okay. Work productivity is not where I want it to be.

Jimmy Purdy [00:49:34]:
But, hey, you know what? We're making money. We're putting money in the account. I can't get rid of David. But meanwhile, you're wondering why my turnover so high. You know, every single new person that comes in sees David as senior, they're never going to say anything about that. Like, this dude has been here for the last five years, right? When they come in on board, it's like, I'm not going to call out him. He's like, you know, he's a top tech, and. And that's.

Jimmy Purdy [00:49:59]:
That's missed, too. I feel like a lot of the time, especially, I've seen the same pattern, and it's like you just don't realize it because no one's gonna say anything even if you ask them, hey, is everything going good? Oh, everything's great. Yeah.

Chris Jones [00:50:12]:
Yeah. We've had instances like that and some stories where shop owners talk about the relief of firing that sort of tech. You know, it's like they don't think they can do it, but then once they do it, like a breath of fresh air for everybody in the shop, it's like, oh, wow, I didn't realize that I could let this person go and everything would be okay. Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:50:33]:
That place of fear, man, that's.

Chris Jones [00:50:34]:
It is. It's hard. It's like, I don't even have an answer for that. It's hard. You know? It's hard because that's a gamble. You know, there's a financial risk, there's a personnel risk, there's all kinds of risks. And it's like, how do you quantify. I said, how do you quantify those risks? Like, you have to take them.

Chris Jones [00:50:49]:
But how? When?

Jimmy Purdy [00:50:51]:
Yeah. And you're wondering yourself the whole time if it's the right thing to do. You can't go back, right?

Chris Jones [00:50:57]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:50:58]:
But like I said, it all comes to that breaking point. You know, by the time you hire a coach and then you get this group of people around you, you start going to seminars, then you start realizing this pattern, and everybody's telling you the same damn thing, that's about as close of an answer as you'll ever going to get, right? You know, and that's what I. That's the power behind getting the coach. That's the power behind going those seminars. That's the power behind getting a good community around you is everyone starts saying the same thing, right, collectively as a group. And the group process is, like, more impactful than you'll ever realize, right. Until you're, like, part of it, and you realize, like, man, everyone's kind of saying the same thing, you know, and maybe they're not all super successful, but, man, if you have people that are successful that aren't that successful, and they're all kind of saying the same general thing, and you're looking for an answer, dude, there's your answer. You know, no one's ever gonna just say, hey, you need to fire him.

Jimmy Purdy [00:51:54]:
Like, no one's gonna say that because no one understands the intricacies of what's going on behind the scenes.

Chris Jones [00:51:59]:
No, that's very true. That's rich. And I think that's. That's the challenging part, because when you're the leader and you're in the shop day to day before, you know, if you haven't been able to take yourself out or at least step back a little bit, it's hard to see when you're on the front lines with your team. Yeah, that's hard to see. You know, it's. And it takes either someone to bring that to your attention, whether that's a. Someone on the personnel or it's a coach or someone else, but it's not something that you can readily see on your own a lot of the time.

Chris Jones [00:52:27]:
I mean, like, you know. You know something's wrong, you just don't know what all the time, and then.

Jimmy Purdy [00:52:32]:
Your ego just won't allow someone to tell you, yeah. You know, yeah, tell me what to do in my own business. It's like, you don't understand that, or.

Chris Jones [00:52:41]:
You have to admit to yourself that you didn't hire the right person. And that's hard. That's. Sometimes that's hard to, like, you know, you're like, I didn't choose the right person here.

Jimmy Purdy [00:52:49]:
Let all that go, man.

Chris Jones [00:52:50]:
You do. You know you do. Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:52:52]:
And that goes right back to, like, it's not personal. That is business. Right? Like, right there. Like, you got to let go of your own personal intuitions and just realize you're going to do nothing but make a bunch of mistakes?

Chris Jones [00:53:03]:
Yeah. You just have to learn. I mean, like, the reality is just to learn detachment in all situations, okay? You gotta learn detachments like that. That buddhist culture, man, just be detached from outcomes, okay? I love all my people, but they're my team, but I have to be fully detached from the outcomes of how things go sometimes.

Jimmy Purdy [00:53:20]:
Wow. That's nice. I love that. I'm gonna write that one down. Everybody stop caring so damn much, huh? Maybe care a little bit more than that.

Chris Jones [00:53:32]:
Yeah. Now, you definitely. You know, you want it. You want to care, but at the same time, you don't want to be so attached, you know, so, like, linked to a particular person, because people do change their minds. Life, lives change. You know, situations change. Maybe your advisor needs maternity leave and she has to go for a while. Oh, man, that was my number one advisor.

Chris Jones [00:53:48]:
Or maybe your technician has to move across the country because his spouse is military. You know, things change. Just like, you know, I just always have a fluid mindset that, okay. You know, it's business. Business is always going to move at its own pace. I can't control people, can't control situations. I just have to enjoy the ride.

Jimmy Purdy [00:54:07]:
That's right. Enjoy the process and embrace the suck.

Chris Jones [00:54:10]:
Yeah. Race the suck. I know that one for sure. But it's fun. I mean, it's fun. I mean, that's what you signed up for. You know? You signed up to be a business owner. You signed up for that challenge.

Chris Jones [00:54:24]:
You believed in yourself enough to go for it, and you believe that you could lead people and be an economy to people who needed it. And you did all those things. You checked all those boxes. Those people are feeding their families. They're happy. They're supporting the community that they love. You're supporting a community that you love. And it's a great thing.

Chris Jones [00:54:41]:
I think it's a great thing to be a shop owner.

Jimmy Purdy [00:54:44]:
I love that. That's a great. It's a great piece right there. Keep doing you.

Chris Jones [00:54:48]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:54:50]:
Well, Chris, this has been super insightful, man.

Chris Jones [00:54:52]:
Yeah, it was fun. I appreciate the time. Jimmy.

Jimmy Purdy [00:54:55]:
Yeah. Chris Jones with former early Ratchet wrench. Your new adventure now is.

Chris Jones [00:55:06]:
My new adventure now is a group editorial director for the vehicle repair group, sector of endeavor Business media. So that's kind of providing oversight for ratchet and wrench. Motor age P ten, professional distributor, National Elube magazine, national Elm Lube news, Fender Bendere, ABRN. So all the modern tire dealers, all the. All the automotive publications that we have in our portfolio.

Jimmy Purdy [00:55:31]:
Just a few.

Chris Jones [00:55:32]:
Just a couple of them.

Jimmy Purdy [00:55:34]:
The whole stack I got sitting right here on my desk next to me. I got. I got almost.

Chris Jones [00:55:38]:
I think everything you just said, automotive is. It's a special industry, and it's only going to get better. Now that we're in this, this technical revolution for automotive, it's only going to get better. So if you're. You're struggling to hang on, you know, just find a buddy, find a shop owner that you can connect with, man, to encourage you because you're in the throes of something really special here in the next decade.

Jimmy Purdy [00:56:00]:
Yeah, I agree with that. Pick up a magazine.

Chris Jones [00:56:03]:
Yeah.

Jimmy Purdy [00:56:04]:
Read. Read one of Chris's articles. Say, right? Like, the information is there, man, and there's some super knowledgeable people in the industry that have really no technical experience, but there's so much you can learn, right? Just like in this conversation in itself, it's like, that's the information that you need to know, right? And just because they don't know how to fix a car doesn't mean they're not as smart as you, right? That's the problem with ego. The technician, you know, calm down, man. Put that in your back pocket and freaking listen and open your ears.

Chris Jones [00:56:41]:
They say if you're the smartest guy, if you're the smartest guy in the room, you're in the wrong room.

Jimmy Purdy [00:56:45]:
There it is. Absolutely. Well, Chris, thanks again for your time.

Chris Jones [00:56:50]:
Thanks, Jimmy. All right, take care.